I have to throw my vote in with those who thought you both acted immaturely. I can understand the joking around. I’m 32 and I joke around with one of my younger colleagues that way sometimes, too. But… You knew before you spoke that Melissa already had a hangup about the name you called her and still used it anyway, even if it was a “nicer version” of the same thing. In my opinion, that’s bound to cause a problem. I know it’s easy to get carried away, but it sounds to me like that’s exactly what happened.
I think she’s being silly for ignoring you - that smacks of immaturity, too - but I’d also agree that you should probably think a little harder before you speak.
Either way, it doesn’t seem like it was ill intentioned and that sucks that she’s so touchy. Good luck tomorrow!
Perhaps you missed that I said we’re friends, and that we joke around, curse at each other, and tease each other constantly. I am not making up the fact that it is indeed the norm at my job to give each other shit and laugh about it daily, and not just between this girl and I. This has been the case among every set of 20something co-workers I have ever observed, excepting those who are religious or extremely shy. My older coworkers would gasp at some of the stuff we say to each other at work in fun, and thus we don’t joke around with them in that way. That is why I assumed that the shock is possibly generational, and I don’t agree that it’s a silly assumption.
Nonsense. I’m accustomed to all kinds of joking around, in all kinds of environments, between all kinds of people, spanning all kinds of ages. It’s you who is unaccustomed to appropriate workplace etiquette, and unable to see or acknowledge how completely out of line you were.
You think that just because this girl didn’t respond negatively the first time you greeted her with an obviously insulting name, that that gave you license to continue to use it. Perhaps she just didn’t want to make waves and hoped it was a one-off and you’d call her by her actual name after that, so she let it slide. But you persisted in your schoolyard antics, despite the fact that this is a place of business, so finally she snapped at you.
You didn’t deserve to be cussed at, but your response was so inappropriate that in most places of employment you’d be given a formal, written warning for it, and possibly terminated if it were brought to the attention of either Management or Human Resources.
Seriously, consider this a lesson learned the easy way, since all it cost you was a potential workplace “friend” and not a job.
No name calling even if you’re joking? Ok. But now I’m confused. We can’t jokingly call each other names because that is unprofessional, but passing a happy birthday card around IS professional. :smack:
Calling people names you are well aware they do not wish to be called, and then telling them to shut up and fuck off when they get mad at it, and then acting as if you are the one who has been wronged, is probably the most annoying behavior anyone can have. It’s so manipulative. You were allowed to tell her to shut up and fuck off, but she’s not allowed to be justifiably angry at your doing something that she has told you not to do.
You should have immediately apologized since she was clearly fed up at being called that name, and then apologized again for the "fuck you,"and then left her alone.
If she just continues on tomorrow as though nothing happened, that seems pretty ideal to me. She’s letting it go and so should you.
There’s a lot of stuff that is “the norm” in work situations that are not professional and not good ideas. Look, you called this woman a name, told her “fuck you” and “shut up” and reduced her to tears. She in turn yelled at you, including obscenities, and then gave you the silent treatment. If you think any of that is defensible work-place behavior, I’m sorry, you’re simply incorrect. My age and your age have nothing to do with it. If you think the HR person is going to say “You told your coworker ‘fuck you’? That’s okay! You’re only 24!”, you’re dreaming. The best you could hope for in that situation is that he or she will tell you both to cut it out this minute and leave each other the hell alone. Which is basically what you’re being told here.
I’m pretty sure I never said anything about birthday cards but no: Calling each other names is not professional and should be discouraged. Why? Because as this example shows, people tend to misunderstand each others’ boundaries and what is intended as “teasing” on one person’s part can all too easily read as meanness or even harrassment to the person being called the name.
It’s not appropriate to call each other names in grade school; it’s no more appropriate at work as an adult. This is even more true with the sort of “mean teasing” that includes “shut up, fatty” or “you bitch!,” which should only be done among people who know each other very, very well – precisely because it can so easily be misinterpreted.
The OP thought she was on safe ground based on previous interactions with this coworker. Well, she was wrong. That right there is the exact reason why this sort of thing should be firmly discouraged.
Shayna, I’m quite familiar with proper workplace etiquette, but with your friends, you feel free to breach that etiquette now and then. If our interactions were always governed by workplace etiquette, we’d never have had half the conversations we’ve had. That is why I was so shocked that a harmless little nickname, of all things, would incite such a dramatic response from her.
You (and others) are correct that it wasn’t appropriate for either of us to trade fuck-you’s at work, friends or not, but the joking nickname was not out of line. I’m not saying anything about whether she should have been offended or not, given her past, but for my workplace, even our bosses would find that particular “insult” laughably trivial.
Well, I’m all sorts of humbled. Only a few people here find significant fault with my co-worker for lashing out at me the way she did, choice phrases and all, good intentions be damned, but almost everyone is amazed that my initial reaction wasn’t to apologize, but to curse back at the person who was yelling and cursing at me.
It’s one thing to say I shouldn’t have done it, or I ought to apologize for it, but I’m sort of flabbergasted that so many people are shocked that it was my first instinct. If you all really exhibit this sort of self-control in your everyday life, and I’m the odd one out, well, I’ve got a long way to go. I guess I needed to figure that out at some point in my life.
Oh, your co-worker is a nutjob, and is in the wrong as well. But I can’t fix her, and neither can you. All you can fix is how you act in the future. So I refrained from discussing the fact that she is clearly out of line on a regular basis.
That is a very good response, and this is a very good place to learn – fewer consequences than learning these lessons in the real world. You simply can’t count on everyone, or anyone, to recognize your inherent good nature and friendly intentions, and forgive your behavior.
We all have to learn each other’s boundaries, and in the learning we sometimes step over the line. By far, the most offensive thing was not your original comment, but your reaction to her anger.
As a smart ass myself, the most valuable lesson I can impart is to be sensitive to the reactions of your audience, and to IMMEDIATELY back off and apologize if you get an unexpected reaction. Plus, don’t repeat it.
Well, I just sent her a message saying again that I’m sorry for calling her that in the first place (in case she just didn’t hear me or something when I told her this morning), that I didn’t mean it to hurt her feelings and honestly had no idea it still bothered her.
I also said that I’m sorry for saying shut up and fuck you, but it’s a well-known fault of mine that I’m very defensive when someone yells at me for hurting them without considering that I didn’t mean to. I said I felt like I was being attacked when all I was trying to do was be friendly, and that’s really all it was.
I figure even if we can’t be friends, I can at least tell her I’m sorry so we can be civil at work. At least this way I can say I did everything I could.
Thanks for the enlightenment, all, even if some of you are a little harsher than I would’ve liked. Some of you, I think, need to keep in mind that one interaction is not telling of a person’s entire character or even workplace persona, and is definitely not grounds for cheap jibes, but perhaps that comes with not being well-known around here.
Stop at Hallmark, get a card, write (another) apology for the name calling and a very heart felt apology for the fuck you. Ask her to forgive you and then leave it at that. If she forgives you then great. If not then it’ll be a tough working environment. If you two do patch it up, do NOT go back to the sort of joking/teasing manners you’ve described. That era is over.
You’ve stumbled upon a quick lesson of what is acceptable at the workplace and what is not. What you described is best left for your much closer friends instead of some work friend. Pretend everyone you work with is “shy” or “religious” and you’ll find work a lot easier to navigate.
I’ll agree with you that during the heated exchange I might have thought Fuck you. Manners dictate that you not say that, instead you apologize and walk away.
I don’t think the OP intended any ill will by the initial greeting and she did mention that she had called her that before with no problems. Admittedly it is possible that the friendship was overestimated. I DO think the recipient of the greeting overreacted greatly, but I’ll agree that the OP’s response didn’t help either.
I guess I’m just wondering where we draw the line re: professionalism at work. In this thread, a supposedly friendly greeting blew up and now everyone is unprofessional. In another thread though, you seemed to not have a problem with a happy birthday/gift/get well card being passed around. Why the first and not the second?
Come on. Are you being intentionally dense? The definition of professional: exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace.
It is courteous to sign a co-worker’s birthday card when it goes around. It is not courteous to call a co-worker smelly. If you cannot see the distinction and want to quibble about which one is “professional” and which one isn’t, then you will probably find yourself in the same boat as the OP sooner or later.
I started my reply before I left work and now that I’m back, I see it’s not really necessary. Thanks for having a clear head and being thoughtful about this, it’s great to see! I would advise to remind yourself next time that what you’ve just said in my quote can easily apply to her interaction with you, too. With that in mind, maybe you guys can be friends, if not great friends.
EVERY occasion here is an occasion for cheap jibes – believe me, it’s not an issue of how well known you are. All we know about you is what you volunteer to tell us – so all our judgements are based on less information than almost anyone who knows you in the RW. Plus, we can’t see the anger and frustration our words cause, so we can pretend they don’t.
Because one is so easily misinterpreted and the other is not. A birthday card embodies good intentions and good wishes, be they ever so perfunctory and insincere; calling your coworker Shelly “Smelly” is not necessarily, or even most of the time, a “supposedly friendly greeting”. The fact that it was intended that way just underscores – again – why that sort of teasing is not a good idea: It so easily backfires. I am not at all certain in every case where we draw the line, but the two situations you’re citing are IMO not even analogous.
And nevermore, I don’t think anyone was assuming that “one interaction is not telling of a person’s entire character or even workplace persona.” We were reacting to what you told us, and to the situation you related. I have no grounds to think based on your posting history that you are generally an immature person; but you were IMO acting immaturely in this instance. But nothing I said was intended as a comment on your general behavior or character.
If you wouldn’t want your mother to hear it, it probably isn’t a good idea to say it at work.
If you wouldn’t want a client to hear it, it probably isn’t a good idea to say it at work.
Work in a professional setting requires a standard of conduct that is generally higher than the norm.
I might add to the OP : If you are training her, then in some small way you represent an example of proper workplace behavior, even if your positions are equal.
Ditto. If I said “fuck you” to a coworker I’d most likely get fired, especially because I already have a history of being mouthy (never said that, though), but even if I’d never been in trouble before, there would definitely be a meeting and a write up. If this gets back to your supervisors, don’t be surprised if there’s a meeting in your future about it. You just don’t act like that at work, not even if you’re provoked. People are expected to be mature and professional at work. If your response to that advice is, “Oh, but my workplace is cool like that, I won’t get in trouble”, you’d still do well to practice for the future. If you let mouthiness become ingrained in you, then you go to a job where they don’t tolerate mouthiness, and a lot don’t, then you get in trouble all the time. (I’m doing a lot better since the last meeting, though )
ETA: Oh yeah, if you were training her, you definitely shouldn’t have said that… I’d be working on my resume right now for sure.
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