I don’t think this is a great debate so I’ll post it in IMHO.
There is an intramural basketball team of American Indian students at the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley that adopted the name “Fightin’ Whities” as an answer to the cultural insensitivity of rival school’s team name and mascot called the “Fightin’ Reds.”
The Whitey mascot is a 1950s-style caricature of a middle-aged white guy with the phrase, “Every thang’s gonna be all white!”
The intention of the macot and name is “…to make a statement on campus…the point is: How does it feel to be made fun of?”
My question is…are any whities like me offended by this? My reaction is: “Hey, that’s kind of cool and funny!” I don’t feel slammed because I don’t feel like the characture represents me (even though I am a whitey). Even if the characture was of a silly spikey-haired ex-gen-x-er designer, I am the sort of person who can laugh at myself.
I wonder if the mascot and name will give these fellas the result they are looking for.
I think that it’s funny as all get out. But, unfortunatly, I’m sure it will get a heated response from just the types of people they are looking to offend. But I have no problem being caricatured in good fun. Just don’t forget the protruding beer gut.
Personally, I think it’s great, too. I’d actually volunteer to be the mascot if I lived nearby and happened to have lighter skin tone. It makes a stronger statement than the usual inneffectual whining.
Doesn’t offend me in the least. But then again this isn’t the first time the white man has been held down I seem to recall a certain movie called “white men can’t jump” that poked fun at caucasion males ability to reach the same vertical level as an African American.
Hmm, I don’t know. As far as the satire goes it is pretty funny but I think these guys are demonizing the people they’re trying to satire.
I truly doubt that the other team calls themselves the Fighting Reds to make fun of Indians, but instead to call up an image of warrior braves. May still be culturally insensitive, but I doubt the motivation for naming themselves that is to make fun of other people; wouldn’t that sort of defeat the purpose of trying to call up a kick-ass name?
And then of course there’s the hypocrisy issue: although as a hypothetical, suggesting that a team be called the “Fighting Whities” is all well and good to demonstrate how insensitive naming teams racially can be, actually doing so, by their definition, makes them guilty of the same thing they are accusing their opposition of: cultural insensitivity (I’m assuming that that is the real crux of their argument and not just that they believe they are being made fun of).
If there is no justification for calling a sports team or any other group the “Fighting Reds” or “Braves” or “Redskins”, even if it is meant as a sign of respect, then they have no justification to actually call themselves the “Fighting Whities”, even if it is meant to be satire.
Mind you I do think that it is funny and I’m not looking to debate whether or not it is appropriate to name teams along racial lines, I just think that the people who did this didn’t think it through fully: they’re not being ethically consistent.
I agree with Asylum on this one. Yes, I find it funny on one hand. On the other, this seems like the first time a team chose a racial title out of spite, which leaves me a little uneasy. The motivation for such teams as Braves or Redskins was not done to make a mockery, but as a symbol of strength. “Fighting Whities” makes a mockery. If it’s a mockery of the issue, it’s funny, if it’s a mockery of a race, then that’s unacceptable.
Well, they are ethically consistent if they meant to be ethically inconsistent. (It makes sense if you think about it.)
Yes, it is a humorous attempt to get a message across. And yes, they do cross the line by characterizing an entire race of people. That’s the point. They are doing exactly what they are railing about. They know it’s wrong, and they did it anyway.
It’s less wrong for somebody to do it if they think they’re being complimentary? Sorry, that makes no sense. If I went and named my team the “Fightin’ Negroes” and printed up some highly warrior-like, but highly stereotyped images to go with it how far do you think I’d get? I meant well, what’s the problem?
So you say it’s unacceptable for somebody to do this. They agree. By doing it themselves they’re trying to point out this very fact. You don’t find any other race being used as a mascot (except for the Irish).
Here’s my topic. This will be treated in as a “lighter side” story by the national media for about a week. Then it will be promptly forgotten. The Redskins will continue to be the Redskins. Middle America will learn nothing, nor will they care. Your “liberal” white will discuss it at length and also forget about it. Good try, fellows, but ultimately inneffectual.
And that last bit is truly offensive on all sides.
I have to disagree with you on this. If a group claims that it is not justified to name a team or group after a whole ethnic group (excluding perhaps if the whole team is of that ethnic group) than it is not ethically consistent to do it yourself for any reason. I don’t see “making a point” as a valid exception. It would not be ethical to rob a man to show how wrong it is to rob people: just because the motivations are different that doesn’t change whether or not the actions are wrong. The only way it would be “ethically consistent” is if they specifically excluded themselves from having to follow these rules of behavior, and I’m a bit of a Kantian where that is concerned; roughly: if you don’t think it’s right for people to do it to you, don’t do to them.**
Perhaps you misunderstood me. My complaint was that the Native Americans claim that the purpose of naming the one team the Fightin’ Reds was to make fun of Indians, whereas the school and many of its students claim the opposite. In other words they’re accusing the school of doing something that the school has never been proven of doing and in the process unfairly casting them in a negative light, or, depending on your side of the issue, a more negative light than they deserve. This a seperate issue from whether or not naming their team the “Fightin’ Whities” is ethically consistent and whether or not it is ever ethical to name your team the "Fightin’ (Insert Ethnic Group Here). **
If they agree that it is unacceptable to do this then they have no right to exclude themselves for any reason (with the possible exception of life and limb). Also just because no other ethnic groups are treated the same way doesn’t really make it right or wrong; for whatever reason Indians have been chosen for mascots far more than any other ethnic group, but that is irrelevant to the main issue of whether or not it is appropriate to name any team after an ethnic group. And before anybody points it out: yes, I know that this is relevant to why so many Indians are upset about team names.
**
Yeah, you’re probably right.
Please note that I’m not taking sides on the issue of team names; that’s a sticky subject in my book and one I’m not in the mood to get into right now. I’m only raising concerns with how people are dealing with and responding to the debate over team names.
It is used indiscriminately as a pejorative for both Indians and communists. Frankly, our skin is a rather taupish brown, though it might have reddened a bit when we walked from Georgia to Oklahoma.
To answer your questions (1) not many real Indians are actually offended by sports team names and (2) people, specificially Indian “activists”, are getting upset, for no real reason, on their behalf.
Data published in Sports Illustrated’s magazine’s March 4, 2002 issue at pages 64-72 in an article by S.L. Price entitled “The Indian Wars”, with a sidebar story on page 69 by Andrea Woo entitled “Polls Apart”, shows that the anti-Indian-logo-protesters lack wide support among the majority of the Native American community. Seventy five percent of Indians polled say that names and mascots using names such as “Indians”, “Redskins” and “Braves” do not discriminate against them, only 23% of Indians polled found such name objectionable, and 83% of Indians polled said that pro teams should continue using such names. The magazine stated that it found the results “surprising” and “There is a near total disconnect between Indian activists and the Native American population on this issue.”
As for “The Fighting Whites”, the name is clearly intended as a spoof and does not offend me. It is just school kids having fun by trying to be outrageous. Way back in the 1980’s when I was in college some guys named their intramural hoops team “Natalie Wood and 4 other people who can’t swim!” Now that’s outrageous!
I also think those Indians that are opposed to using Fighting Indians as a team name are doing their ancestors an injustice.
No one is demeaning the American Indian when they name their team after that fighting spirit the American Indian displayed.
Come to think of it on behalf of all whites I thank you for the honor.
I seem to recall a certain movie called “white men can’t jump” that poked fun at caucasion males ability to reach the same vertical level as an African American.