Go Whities! (Redskins Redux)

The BBQ Pit
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Some of you may remember my now-lost thread on why I think the Washington Redskins’ team name sucks. Well, now I have a new team to cheer.

The Fightin’ Whites. That’s “Whites,” not “Whities,” as is commonly misreported. For some reason, “Whities” just seems to roll of everyone’s tounge better. Other stories have already crawled to the top of Google’s list if you care to search for them.

And now, you can also (theoretically) purchase your own Fightin’ Whites merchandise! I must caution everyone that I had trouble with my first order. The proceeds go to a scholarship fund, so I took the risk.

I plan to proudly wear mine every Sunday this fall here in beautiful Washington, DC.

I’d also like to point out to my pal, Dan “Anvil-Assed Pig Fucker” Snyder* that I have never and will never purchase any Redskins merchandise, yet I happily dropped a couple ‘a sawbucks on an excellent hooded sweatshirt for the University of Northern Colorado Intramural Fightin’ Whites. Guess you’ll have to check under the seat for that toll booth change now, Danny Boy.

Go Whities!

  • “Anvil-Assed Pig Fucker” is not an offensive nickname, because I said so, just as Mr. Snyder’s press lackeys have denied that the term “Redskin” is offensive.
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**

That’s weird. According to the local paper they were initially the Fighting Whites, but changed it to Whities to offend more people. Now it looks like they’ve gone back to Whites. They should stick to their guns!

Not that it really matters, I have yet to hear from one person who is offended by their name. I’d buy one of their t-shirts but with my new hairstyle it might be mis-interpreted.

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*Two bits, four bits
six bits, a buck.

Come to our Casino
and try your luck.*

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Two bits, four bits
six bits, a dollar.

Mention scalping tickets
and we’re gonna holler.

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I live in Baltimore, That means I HATE the Redskins. But I do respect them for keeping the name. If some people think it’s offensive…tough. And the team Whites/Whities could be Honkies, Crackers or whatever… won’t make a difference to me.

If simple words offend you… tough.
PC can die.

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assuming Who_me? will refrain from taking a swing at the next person who crudely insults his/her significant other’s or mother’s looks, provenance, or sexual merits

Anyway, just to forestall any further speculation, I’m reliably informed that the New Zealand All Blacks are so named due to the colour of their uniform. Their uniform.

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Here are two simple words for you: fuck you.

Offended? Tough.

It ain’t just PC folk who are offended by the name. After discovering (after years of not truly understanding this) the meaning of “redskin” you can bet your farm I’m offended. I’d be offended even if I weren’t Native American offspring (part, anyway). Why? Because, and you’ll want to read this twice in case some of the big words trip you up, it’s an offensive term. It’s why matt rightfully gets offended when “fag” is used in a derogatory manner, or my friend André would presumably get offended if he heard “darkie” or something similar used in a derogatory manner, or if Astroboy heard someone called “yellow”, or if cmkeller heard “kike”.

I am not especially PC, trust me:) However, I hear a term like Redskin, or fag, or darkie, or kike, and if it’s used in an ignorant or perjorative manner I’m offended.

They’re offensive terms.

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Ok, here are some ‘simple words’ for you:

Blacks were better off during slavery, when they knew their place. The Holocaust – if it happened – was a good thing; after all, we all know about the international Zionist conspiracy. Besides, who’s going to miss some fucking kikes and homos, anyway? And don’t get me started on fags – all over the fucking media and pretending like they’re normal! Too many fucking faggots and niggers in this country, if you ask me. Matthew Shepherd got what he deserved. AIDS cures fags.
:rolleyes: Yeah, I see your point. Why should anyone consider racial slurs and other ‘simple words’ offensive in any way?

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This whole discussion is seriously off-base. It’s so typical of sofa liberals to mythologize the poor rather than to sacrifice anything to give them the means of empowerment.

If you’re so concerned about the First Nations ( a term I borrowed from our neighbors to the north. The phrase Native Americans annoys me.), then get involved with the real issues: poverty, chronic alcoholism, malnutrition, teen suicide, unemployment. Ever been to the Pine Ridge Sioux reservation in South Dakota? I have. Ever been to Hopiland or the Navajo rez in Arizona? I have. Ever actually worked to improve living conditions for First Nations peoples? I have. Not that treating Indians as mascots is defensible, but it’s just so trivial compared to the important issues.

Changing the name of the DC football team will not help fight any of these terrible problems, but it will help limousine liberals feel good about themselves, and isn’t that the real issue?

Unfortuantely, many charity associations that claim to help Indians, like the National Relief Charities and the American Indian Heritage Foundation, are just scammers using Indians to swindle well-intentioned givers. If you want to help, why don’t you cut a check to

Grass Roots Oglala Lakota Oyate (GROLO)
P.O. Box 51
Pine Ridge, S.D. 57770

Hopi Foundation
P.O. Box 705, Hotevilla, Arizona 86030-0705
(520) 734-2380

or the Council of Indian Nations.
Who_me, you’re a racist idiot. Yes, you.

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(Sometimes when I post about this topic, I start thinking “Move, you dead horse, move!” and giggle madly.)

Anyhow, I think some people, fer instance the columnist in the link Sofa included, are missing part of the point. I, personally, don’t think “giving offense” is the primary goal of the Fightin’ Whites. As a tool for simply raising awareness of this issue, I think the Whites are doing a pretty good job. When I talk about the Redskins, I’m not trying to offend anyone, I’m just trying to share insights. This isn’t about “I can offend you better than you can offend me!”

Gobear, I agree with you that it’s a shame that so many “Indian” charities are shady, and thank you for sharing the information about some good ones. However, I’m uncomfortable when you imply that people who are invested in the Redskins issue (or more specifically, the idea that the name should be retired) are shallow or short-sighted. A call for more substantive action on the myriad problems you detailed in addition is always an excellent reminder, however, in this case, particularly as it applies to the OP, you are preaching to the choir.

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Gobear, FWIW, I agree with you. It is essentially a non-issue. Nevertheless, I tend to get angry when people seem to throw compassion and tolerance out the window because they are too “PC”. Racism against – well, I usually use Native Americans because that’s what I was taught and it’s commonly understood, but I’m happy to borrow ‘First Nations’ from you for the sake of this discussion – people is really a problem out here in the Midwest. I met a lot of people in college who told me stories about North Woods Wisconsin and the attitudes that prevail, often because of the very problems that you cited. My mom is from Oklahoma, and don’t get me started about what her parents think. (Let’s just say I was never allowed to go to a ‘pow-wow’ when I was visiting the area.) It irks me that racism against blacks is so decried but racism against other groups is more tolerated – at least where I live.

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Sorry if the truth hurts, but yes, they are shallow and short-sighted. Well-intnetioned white people lmake the same mistake as the racists; they try to make decisions about Indian affiars without consulting the Indians themselves.

I was living in Northern Arizona near the Navajo-Hopi rezzes during the big Mountain controversy. In a nutshell,

1882 President Chester A. Arthur signed a bill to create a Hopi reservation.

1962 A federal court reaffirmed the boundaries of an exclusive Hopi area set aside in 1943, but declared the balance of the 1882 reservation had to become a Joint Use Area (JUA), shared equally between Hopi and Navajo.

1971 Navajo-Hopi Land Settlement Act (PL93-531) becomes law, dividing the JUA into Navajo and Hopi halves .

1986 Deadline passes for Navajo families to evacuate Hopi lands.

This became a bigass controversy, and Hollywood figures like Jon Voigt and Martin Sheen flew in to denounce the “cruel displacement of the Navajo,” toally ignorang that a)it wan an inter-Indian problem and b) the Navajos were in the wrong by staying on Hopi land.

Yet another example of white folks not knowing what the hell they’re talking about.

Yes, the Redskins name should be retired, but getting employment, healthcare, and sanitation to the Indians is far more important than the name of a football franchise.

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I never considered it “non-PC” to enslave or murder. I considered it slavery and/or murder. Using the word faggot is a lot different from killing someone. Although, to be truthful, I do not use the word in everyday speech.

You can call me, my mother, my father, anyone I’ve ever known anything you want. It won’t hurt them. Really…it won’t.
I’ll admit that much of the “non- PC” words do encourage discrimination in the bigotted. But I feel (and this is only my opinion) that we put too much power into words.

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Well, it’s obvious that the “Fighting Whit(i)es” is meant to denigrate and insult white people.

I mean, that’s the logic we hear every time the “Redskins” battle gets rejoined.

Fact: several Indian-reservation high schools have chosen “Redskins” as their team name. (Cite was provided in another Redskins thread here over the winter. Can’t find it now. sorry.) Those kids must have completely bought into society’s low opinion of them, and are expressing that by actions of self-hatred.

Fact: we don’t know the origin of the Washington Redskins’ nickname; no one was taking notes. But since the team acquired the Redskins moniker in Boston, it could have easily had to do with honoring a bunch of colonial tax protesters. We’ll never know.

Fact: people with yachts don’t generally name them after things they dislike or despise. (Closest I can ever recall is when onetime U-Va hoops coach Terry Holland named his dog “Dean Smith”.) You have to figure that the same is true of ML teams.

This is why there aren’t any teams with names like the “Carolina Niggers” or the “San Francisco Fightin’ Faggots” or what have you.

I mean, look at team names. Sometimes, they’re just kinda there (at least, apart from their history), like White Sox, Dodgers, or Twins. But then you get human or superhuman names such as Yankees, Patriots, Rangers, Raiders, Buccaneers, Giants, Royals, Angels, Devils: symbols of strength and potency. Ditto animals: Eagles, Hawks, Lions, Tigers, Bears (oh my! ;)), Panthers, Ravens, and so forth. Same deal.

It must be awfully difficult for American Indians to be held up as a symbol of strength and bravery, but I suspect it’s a cross (“the quartering of the universe into active and passive principles” ;)) they can bear a lot more easily than their very real problems to which gobear refers.

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And Gobear, I am sorry if you were insulted. That was not my intention.

I do agree with what you posted.

People get all uptight over words and sometime forget the real issues. You do not have to be a racist to believe that it’s not what you call something that gives it validation. The validation is in the thing itself. I do not consider myself a racist, but again, it’s a word. That the word was applied to me does not make it true, any more than any other label does.

Your opinion is your own. Again, I appologize for any offence.

P.S.
When I say, PC can die, I do not mean that I find being polite to someone wrong.

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The truth is that it’s possible for people to be aware of and proactive on more than one issue at a time.

Personally, I first became involved with the Indian mascot issue (and yes, it’s complex and no, not all Indian people or white people or people in general agree on it) when I was studying with Joanna Bigfeather (Cherokee-Mescalero Apache), the curator of the Native American Community House Gallery in NYC, and heard Charlene Teeters (Spokane) speak on this topic. My opinions were further formed when I spent time at Pine Ridge (one of your requirements for being aware of Native issues, I believe).

You and I might disagree on where the Redskins falls into the structure of priorities for issues of importance to Native persons, but rest assured it is not because I failed to educate myself about them.

Again, I would like to repeat that I agree with the importance of all the issues you outlined. It is overwhelming to think of the number of disadvantages specifically affecting Native peoples that are still built into our government and our culture.

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Dude, you guys are talkin’ about fuckin’ Pine Ridge. We’re fucked!

I didn’t start this thread, Man. It’s like a worm, or something, in my computer. I was just an Indian Guide as a kid, and I watched Thunderheart on cable once.

I’m leaving now.

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I don’t know anything about any of this, but here’s a column about a poll (sorry, I can’t find the poll itself) which claims that the vast majority of Native Americans could give a rat’s ass about the names of sports teams:

[quote]
[ul][li]83 percent of Indians, and 79 percent of fans, said pro teams should not stop using Indian nicknames, mascots and symbols. [/li][li]75 percent of Indians, and 88 percent of fans, said use of the names and symbols does not contribute to discrimination against Indians. [/li][li]Asked if high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames, 81 percent of Native American respondents said no.[/ul] [/li][/quote]

Food for thought.

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Yes, Delphica, but with all due respect, as you are clearly more knowledgable about this subject than I, the mascot names contraversy is what the average American hears about. Just like here in SC, there are very tangible improvements that could be implemented in the black community, but what the public hears about is the neverending flag issue and NAACP boycott.
One wonders how dedicated these groups are to making actual measurable changes to the quality of life and prosperity of their people, or if it is just easier to play the blame game.
I fully agree with gobear and RTFirefly that the priorities seem misplaced.
However, how much of that is due to media coverage?
Perhaps those dedicated to making the day-to-day better are just not pulling in the ratings like those who are involved in
high-profile, oversimplified battles over football team mascots and the like.

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I have a goal in life; purchase an NHL franchise (I likely could get one for cheap at a bankruptcy auction), move it to Kansas, and rename it the Topeka Pansies. It’s a beautiful flower.

Sua