A Bomb? Gunpowder and a huge bomb. And then the olympic torch bearing Urik-hi (mom) guy is the one thing Legolas can’t kill with his bow. He pulls of ten thousand other great shots but can’t hit this guy.
Also in that battle when the bad army shows up and they march in formation to Helms Deep they pull up for a dramatic face each other bit and some old guy accidentally lets loose an arrow and kills one of the bad guys. Hey! Good Guys! AS SOON AS THEY COME IN RANGE YOU START WITH THE HAIL OF ARROWS!
Why the hell does Aragorn not carry the broken sword? That just bugs me.
I don’t think Bilbo looked old, he looked middle-aged. Considering that he’s about to celebrate his 111th birthday, I don’t think the line was all that out of place.
When I saw that scene in the movie, I leaned over to my friend and whispered, “They’re breakdance fighting!” Unfortunetly, since I’m one of only five people worldwise who saw Zoolander, he didn’t know what I was talking about.
At this point, I’ve seen the extended version more often (and more recently) than the theatrical cut that it’s hard to keep track of what was original and what was added, but I think they did a good job of showing the hobbit’s distrust of Strider. Especially Sam.
Don’t remember that scene, so I’ll substitute a mini-rant about the Horn of Gondor. Damn, that was one underwhelming horn. Sounded like someone was throttling a goose.
Heh. Agreed.
What, you mean his reaction when he finds Balin’s tomb? Eh, I can forgive that: he knew something bad had happened to the dwarves of Moria, but he still might have held out hope that his personal relations had found a way to survive or escape.
Oof, can’t argue that one. Plus, it was a setup for another dwarf-tossing joke in The Two Towers. Similarly, in TTT, Gimli’s joke about not being able to see over the ramparts. Dude, if you take two steps to your right, you can see between the crenellations!
A cringeworthy scene indeed.
I guess this sort of thing is subjective, but I didn’t have a problem with that scene. Sure, I could tell it was CG. I could also tell that the skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts were stop-motion. I don’t demand that fx be 100% realistic, just so long as they’re showing me something new or exciting. And Legolas v. the cave troll was both, as far as I’m concerned.
As an inveterate pessimist and natural critic, I too am upset at the lack of things to complain about in this movie.
Lothlorien is the Golden Wood. Shouldn’t it be more, y’know, golden?
Celeborn’s strange, half-asleep way of speaking. And his ugly hair.
Moving on to TTT:
Entmoot making the wrong decision. And then suddenly changing their minds (very hasty, hm?). Makes no sense at all, and the book’s version could have worked onscreen just fine.
These are more than nitpicks. These were wrong. Tolkien makes a point of developing his characters in such a way that one does not always know whether they will turn out to be good or bad. Saruman the White is initially the leader of the Council. Denethor is the righteous Steward. Théoden is the crippled, senile puppet. They are frequently frightening on initial contact, but their personalities are developed.
Treebeard got turned into a buffoon who had to be tricked into recognizing evil and what to do about it. Faramir was reduced to being Boromir 2.0 until he was shown that the Nazgûl were after Frodo, at which point he gets to redeem himself by belatedly making the correct decision. These damaged the movie in unnecessary ways.
Théoden is also harmed. Rather than being shown that he has been the dupe of lies and giving him a chance to redeem his own dignity, he is simply possessed by Saruman. There is no need for redemption if one has been forcibly possessed. He becomes simply a puppet that first acts at the will of Saruman and then at the will of Jackson and Walsh.
Elves out of Helm’s Deep! Elves out of Helm’s Deep!
Sorry, I just feel really strongly about that one. It muddles the whole JRRT concept of Elves as the fading race, withdrawing from the world.
As for Faramir, after reading a lot of the backstory in “History of Middle-Earth Series” (HOMES), I’m actually a bit more sympathetic to the version PJ stuck in. A lot of self-doubt and inner turmoil was injected into Faramir’s character in the early writings, then suddenly and almost inexplicably dropped during the encounter with Frodo and Sam. Frankly, given his character as envisioned by JRRT, it would have made more sense for him (in the book) to be sorely tempted by the ring, especially to demonstrate his worth to his father. Subsequent repentance and freely relinquishing the ring would also have been in accord with his character as (apparantly) envisioned by JRRT.
But Entmoot was unnecessary, and confusing. And Theoden’s possession was a device which shortened the movie a bit, I suppose, but certainly detracted from Theoden’s character.
But I’m still grateful that PJ is doing it as well as he is.
Oh, and 16. That little inspirational speech by Sam in Osgiliath just sucked!
The Gunpowder bomb thing was invented by Saruman, you know, one of the most powerful wizards of his age, we even hear of him telling that Urak Hai about Helms Deep one weak point. Besides it was in the book. And yea we saw Legolas get loads of shots spot on, but we never saw him in that situation before, yes in Moria he came close, but close is not an army of x* amount of Urak Hai.
x-amount because I cant remember the figure.
I hated what they did to Faramir, I mean according to the rules of there city as we find out in Two Towers, to free hostages, a life must be sacraficed, ie Faramir, and he lets them go, yay him! But does that mean hes gonna be killed?!??! Im assuming not because of a whole part of ROTK. But then I wouldnt know, Ive not seen it, does anyone know whats going to happen with that??
And for the record Im not giving out about Jackson, I think hes done a fabulous job, just wish he hadnt changed that soo much.
A nit-pick bordering on completely wrong…
Why did it not end like the book says? Is that going to be left out? Or is it in ROTK? And if its in ROTK, whats going to be left out of that movie to accomodate this?..Anyone?
Two things here, first of all… I’ve noticed this as a big movie convention. IMHO, and I think in the HO of many screenwriters, if there is a long buildup to something, and then that something actually happens, it’s boring. So, Peter Jackson pulled the ol’ switcheroo here, albeit at the expense of the Ents.
Secondly, and I noticed this in FoTR, too, PJ seems to be trying to inject some strength and nobility into Pippin and Merry. IIRC (and forgive my ignorance if I don’t, it’s been a while since I read the novels), it is Frodo who tells Faramir that Boromir is dead, not the other way around, right? I thought about why PJ would change that, and it dawned on me… I think PJ wanted to make Pippin and Merry responsible for Frodo’s escape. They sacrifice themselves by creating a diversion so Frodo can get away. In FoTR, the novel, they just sort of get snatched up because they fit the description, and the Uruks were never told how many hobbits to kidnap, again, IIRC. Same thing with the Entmoot. Give the noble decision to the characters we already know, instead of the relatively new Ents.
The right decision? Wrong decision? I dunno. But I see where PJ is coming from.
Legolas riding the troll. Yes, it looked like CGI, it still looks cool. He’s an elf performing a task no human stuntman could pull. I think of people who complain about this in the same manner who complained about te CGI in * Spider Man* i.e “You’re right, they should have used real superheroes”.
For bad CGi in the series, I felt the standout scene was the breakout of Helm’s Deep was much worse (“Bowling for Urak-Hai”). The problem is that horses cannot react to impacting things that aren’t there.
Helm’s Deep: Was I on drugs? I thought Legolas did hit the explodin’ orc twice, but that he was an almost unstoppable running thing (specialist Urak-Hai?). Why is everyone claiming he missed?
Elves in Helm’s Deep: I say to purists: give it a rest. Tolkien had the luxury of long (and often boring) dialogue to explain what the elves were doing to counter Sauron, and its till looks like they’re just kicking back and letting humans take the brunt of it. Their numbers are still a pretty small contribution.
Faramir being more Boromir-ish. Same deal. This is one of the things that made the ring in the book seem rather plain and dull: Damn near everyone except Boromir and others can resist it! I never found Faramir to be a well developed character. I think the fact that he could learn from his brother’s mistake made for a better characterization.
Galadriel: eh…
I still think that Jackson has made an excellent set of movies and I don’t find any of his changes to be so devastating as to “ruin” everything. Why do some feel that changing this or that “totally reverses” the feel of a story? I think that borderline patronizing, elves in Helm’s Deep does not ruin the concept of elves being a fading race. The sheer number of elves in the prologue of FOTR compared to the regiment of elves in TTT shows that quite well in my mind, thank you.
Perhaps. If so, it’s just started a bit earlier than in the book, as both hobbits get “heroized” while dealing bravely and cleverly with the orcs, and later in the service of Rohan and Gondor.
I admit to having only seen it in the theater. But, I saw it again the very next night. Legolamb did NOT miss. He sink his first shot into the runner’s lower neck. The arrow enters just above the collarbone and clearly pierces the lung and heart. This is an obvious kill shot. Legolamb’s second shot is a mirror on the other side of the runner’s neck.
Delly wondrers above why TTT the movie does not end like TTT the book. I read an interview in a magazine (can’t remember which–sorry!), in which Jackson said that he’d decided to save Shelob for the third film so there would be at least ONE really exciting episode with Sam and Frodo. Otherwise, he said, those two would just be walking up a mountain for most of the movie.
Snug answered the first part of this. As for the second part:
The Scouring of the Shire, when Sam and Frodo return home to find it under the rule of Saruman, has been cut. It’s a shame, because it really is a vital part of the narrative, but I simply can’t see it ever working in a movie. It would simply destroy the pacing, and pad the movie out to an unexceptable length.
Peter Jackson didn’t want to put Shelob in TTT because there were already two films that year featuring giant spiders (Eight Legged Freaks, and HP and the Chamber of Secrets)
I wasnt talking about Shelob, and I knew that scourging the shower was to left out… theres another thread around somewhere about that…
I should have been clearer, what I meant was why didnt we have the ending we all knew? Like the TT we saw, ends with Gandalf, Theoden, Eomer, Aragorn*, on top of some hill looking in a direction, whereas in the book, after all of this, we have the fellowship meeting with Pippin & Merry at Isengard, the situation with the Palantir, and Saruman stuck inside Isengard… In a spoiler box incase it is in ROTK and I dont ant to ruin the movie for anyone.
My point is that there is plenty that happens in ROTK to keep a three hour movie going, there is no need for them to bring in stuff from TT, regarding the gandalf/aragorn/merry/pipp/rohan/gondor side of it, I understand the sam&frodo bit. So does that mean:
A. There leaving all this out? or
B. It is actually going to cut into ROTK?
Dont get me wrong, I love the films, I think there great. Im just wondering whats happening re the above.
Actually I thought there was only three people at the end… cant check it as its different from the book, which one of the above isnt there?
I predict at least portions of “The Palantir” chapter will make it more or less intact. Not only is it an opportunity for some cool visuals, it sets the Pippin in Gondor story in action, and I doubt if PJ would want to lose all of that.
With the scouring definitely out, it shouldn’t be hard to get the rest of the key events of the book in – unless PJ gets sidetracked with silliness like Aragorn falling off a cliff.
As for Faramir, I’d bet money that his fate will be generally the same that is in the book. There’s no compelling reason it should be otherwise.
I actually find the book’s version of the ring more complex and interesting. The ring doesn’t instantly turn everyone evil, it seems to interact with their innate pride and desire to control others. But I think Jackson was probably correct to simplify it for the films and depict the ring as an irresistible force.
Hey, I thought Spider-Man looked cool, Legolas didn’t. IMO, of course. I never suggested they should have used real trolls and elves.
zebra, I think Peter Jackson just decided it would look silly for Aragorn to unsheath a stub of a sword. Also, unlike book Aragorn who never seems to doubt his destiny, movie Aragorn still needs a lot of convincing, so it makes some sense that he isn’t carrying the shards of Narsil.
Just remembered another nitpick. I could overlook some of the inconsistencies in the character’s sizes and body proportions, but in Boromir and Frodo’s final confrontation, they’re almost the same size. Moments later, when Frodo offers the ring to Aragorn, the Hobbit’s hand looks absolutely tiny in comparison to the human’s. Just to be clear, I’m not saying they should have used actual Hobbits in these scenes, just that this discrepancy was jarring to me.
