I saw it last night, and my hopes were high. The first had managed to stay faily true to the book, with edits and small revisions that were understandable. This time around Tolkein’s story is the inspiration for a different story envisioned by Jackson et al, and I was left with a lot Huh WTF? Leaving subplots or scenes or chapters on the cutting room floor is one thing, but major plot line revisions and changes of character for no apparent purpose disrespects the source material. Sure, it is a good movie and wonderfully executed on its own merit, but if you are going to make up a story, then make up your own damn story, don’t call it Tolkein.
(Yes, I know about the Ebert rant thread, but I’m not complaining about the violence, hell I liked that, I’m complaining about …things like Faromir taking the ring and Frodo back to Gondor … to Gondor? the whole point was to have Sauron distracted from looking close at home so that the ring-bearer would not be discovered!.. instead of being the wiser brother without lust for power and thus less beloved by Dad, like Gandalf being against going to Helm’s Deep, like the elves being at Helm’s Deep, like Treebeard being more or less tricked by Merry into finding out about the destruction of his trees as if he never knewAgain leaving things out is one thing … no Entwives story? Okay, something has to go. And so on. But major plot changes? That’s different.)
I thought the changes to Faramir’s character were all right and dandy. Had Jackson adhered to the book-version of Faramir, we would have had a rather flat and unbelievable character up on screen.
I concur with scablet. I was ok with the Faramir change, for the reasons cited. I’m still annoyed that there were elves in Helm’s Deep, though. And I wish we would have had the huorns at helm’s deep too.
Just be grateful someone talked PJ out of putting Arwen into the battle at the Hornburg.
Nan lá ëa sére indonyan sinomë tennoio,
an sinomë ëa tyelma, ar euva metta ar i narquelië.
(But my heart resteth not here for ever,
for here is ending, and there will be an end and the Fading)
JRRT
I actually prety much liked this “version” of the books. In the end it all seems to come down prety much the same as in TTT. And would everybody please stop nagging about the 5 missing chapters at the end? If they would have put those in this movie it would have been 5 hours long. They r gonna put it in fornt of ROTK.
I liked all the changes exept for the aragorn falling of the cliff part. It didn’t realy seem to do anything to the advancement of the story (expet for being the intro for Brego and another scene with Arwen). But that was completely made up. the elves at helms deep well it wasnt it the book but I thought it was prety cool to see more of the elves.
RoTK is the shortest of the three books (yeah yeah, three parts of one book) by far, so I can see why they’d want to tack on some of the more gripping action from the tail-end of TTT. I’m pretty sure they’re going to skip the lengthy, dull “where are they now” denouement of RoTK - definitely for the better.
On that note, how much FREAKING ASS is the final showdown
[megaspoiler]
(Gollum vs. Frodo’s finger)
going to kick? Even a shitty director would be hard-pressed to completely mess THAT ending up.
“Hello, my name is Faramir, and I have a Ring problem.”
Saw it last night, 10 pm showing, got home about 1:30 am!
The only thing that really jarred for me was the gratuitous “skatebording” by Fangorn at Helm’s Deep. That annoyed me, although the many 20-year olds in the audience seemed to like it.
I don’t get all the complaints about Faramir. I never saw Faramir as much of a pivotal character - or the parts in the book with him in them as that important. I recognized the changes, butm ore or less accepted them.
The chopping of the ent plot annoyed me, though. I loved that part of the book. And we definitely should have had more scenes of ents kicking some Orc ass in Isengard.
Quibble: That was Legolas. Yeah, it was silly and gratuitous, but I’ll admit I laughed.
I’m mostly just upset of the lack of the ent-draught. It’s such a minor thing, they could have found a way to include it. They could have cut some of the “Sam and Frodo wandering around” stuff. Fooey. (Okay, I realize that Sam and Frodo are very central characters, but let’s face it, in TTT, their activities aren’t nearly as interesting as everyone else’s.)
it’s probably because I’m totally un-hip, but the skateboarding reference never occured to me. I enjoyed it for what it was; a silly-but-badass little bit of midbattle showofftitude.
Dseid, you should see it again if you haven’t yet. I was upset by a lot of things the first time I saw The Two Towers, but when I went again just to have fun watching it I liked it a lot better.
Frankly, I thought it was the worst of both worlds. That they added in their own story made things unpredictable… but what they added was, in terms of standard Hollywood aciton flicks, VERY predictable. I could have lived with the changes had they been well executed and inventive, but instead they added a bunch of cliched phrases, over-dramatized. Sam’s speech at the end made me squirm. Sam is simple, but he’s supposed to be wise too, not a mouthpiece for bad pre-schooler poetry.
The one addition I did think was worthwhile, however, was the flash forward to Aragorn’s death and Arwen’s lone suffering. This IS an inventive and interesting drama dilemna, and it is neat to have an element of epic sadness that is promised even IF all the happy endings are assured. It did a lot to capture LOTR’s scope, and the plight of the Elves
I can live with Faramir, the changes were necessary to insert some drama into the Frodo narative but it does bring me back to my big two complaints regarding changes from the book to movie. First, all the pay off from the events in The Two Towers has been shoved into Return of the King. The Gandalf v. Sauraman rematch, the entry into Mordor and the surrounding events; TTT by itself always contained my least favorite sections of LotR and the things that make having Frodo trudge through swamps and hills for a hundred and fifty pages worth sitting through isn’t in the movie.
Any way, my other problem is that Gandalf is now a moron with the tactical sense of peanut butter, reversing both the image he has from the book and flip flopping the decisions he made there. “Boy that Theoden sure is an arogant jerk for taking his tiny force into a strong defensive position where he can wait for assistance rather than taking them out and trying to fight ten thousand orcs with one twentieth the number of men on an open plain where the orcs can make easy pike formations and chop their riders to bits!”
Oh, and I didn’t care for the portrayal of Theoden (he seemed snappier and meaner than I always invisioned) but I suspect that’s the actor not the script that’s doing it to me.
<< things like Faromir taking the ring and Frodo back to Gondor >>
No, he takes Frodo to some deserted fort on the way to Minas Tirith. It’s not that different from the book, really. In both book and movie, Faramir takes Frodo to their hidden cave. In the book, he resists the ring and sets Frodo free. In the movie, he first is tempted by the ring and starts to take Frodo to Minas Tirith, but then sees deeper and lets Frodo go.
The part that bothers me is Sam blurting out to Faramir, in the presence of the other soldiers, something about greed for the ring. The whole point of the quest is Frodo trying to sneak the ring into Mordor, a ploy that Sauron would not expect; secrecy is critical. Talking about the ring in front of a group of soldiers would spell doom to the mission.
I’ve managed to live with any of the book/movie discrepancies as necessary to movie-making rather than book-writing. My one big problem – not resolved by the FELLOWSHIP extended cut – is that the whole plot hinges on Sauron not expecting them to try to destroy the ring. Sauron expects (and fears) that one of their great leaders – Gandalf or Aragorn, say – will take and use the ring. This has not been made clear, not at all, in the movies.
The skateboarding gag was no cheaper or sillier than the “toss me” references. All in all, a great flick with some necessary compromises. I especially liked the way the lidless eye was shown in much more detail this time round…Timmy