Flearthers

Greetings, first time poster here and I haven’t formally introduced myself to the community if there is a specific place to do so because I am in a rush to get this particular issue posted while it’s fresh in my memory. So without further ado here goes.

I’m 53 and I have a half brother (dad’s side) who is a little over 4 years younger than I am. We didn’t meet until 2014 because our dad left my mother when I was a baby and moved from the east coast (Connecticut) to Colorado where he had my brother with a different woman. Family stuff aside, I really don’t blame him. My mother was enough to drive just about anyone away. I also have no hard feelings, hold no grudges, nor do I carry any mental baggage around with me from any of this. This also has nothing to do with the subject of this post so please bear with me for a short time as it will get a bit more interesting-ish.

I got into a serious situation in Maine, which is where I was raised afrer I was moved there from Connecticut as a small child. My mother decided she didn’t want a boy so she abandoned me with her mother, my grandmother, who was not in good health so my uncle, mom’s brother dropped out of Army ROTC to come home and help her with me. My grandmother passed away before I started grade school which left me in the sole care of my uncle throughout my schooling which I ultimately ended up dropping out of to attend night school so that I could get a job. My uncle taught me many useful skills however social skills was unfortunately not one of them. I had to figure that stuff out all on my own through trial and error as an unfortunate poor kid among a plethora of social classes and cliques in a small Maine city.

Some of this was good in a way however much of it was not, so much. I seemed to get bounced around a bit between some of the upper class kids because of my grades and the advanced programs that were available to those of us with the very highest. I was a poor kid but I was a straight A kid until 7th grade so I was included in the gifted and talented program where I continued to exceed in my use of the limited educational systems of the day. But that’s where that life ended. We moved to a different part of the city and the other kids in that neighborhood were much different than where I had lived up until this move. I was also a little older and allowed outside more so I had more exposure to this new group of kids who were then a bit older than me but it didn’t take me long to catch their attention. This new group had long hair and wore heavy metal oriented t-shirts, jeans with holes, and jean jackets with Iron Maiden Eddie patches. I had only been exposed to classsic rock until then so when I started hanging out with these guys and experiencing pot, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC et all it was an entirely new and quite interesting time and that was a turning point for me. I dropped out of day school and got a job so that I could buy weed, beer, and concert tickets.

I’ve been through a lot in my life with many experiences through a wide spectrum of subjects and conditions and I’ve learned to do many things, mostly out of necessity because I’ve never been able to afford to pay others to do things that I am perfectly capable of learning how to do on my own with those early tools that my uncle taught me about mechanics and wood working among many other things and also things that I learned from other people and that which I have just learned solely on my own such as building telescopes.

Owning a decent telescope saves money and still allows us to look much more in depth into what’s going on around us out there. Now I’m not any scientist but it certainly seems to me that all the other objects that are visible out there are spherical. I also get the feeling that I am standing on a ball. I don’t know exactly how to ex[lain that. I just feel it and I have always felt it.

Upon meeting my brother I found it very interesting that we shared so muvh in common. We are both painters by trade, and very good on es at that. we have many things
that we both agree on and do many things the same way and we generally have the same mindset considering how we view most things about life and the world around us. However, there is one very big disagree Iment. I believe the world is indeed a globe and he is a flearther. And I have a hatrd time believing that he thinks the world is flat because I believe that he is a very intelligent man and that any inelligent person wouldm’t possibly think that the world could be flat. And I am under the impression that he thinks I’m also pretty smart just as I’m sure he has a hard time believing that I think it’s a sphere. I have tried to entertain a few of the videos that he’s told me I should watch in order to support the theory and they all left me with the same impression that all who subscribe to the theory and attempt to support it are just plain nuts. None of what I have seen and heard and read makes any sense to me nor is any of it convincing and it’s all just a big bunch of hogwash to me and all the information that I have gathered about the subject including the people who have published it is preposterous and I can’t find a single piece of what they consider evidence that even makes any sense at all and I find all flearthers, including my brother just plain looney. This makes it difficult for me to want to even be around him because it always seems to come up in conversation at some point every time we try to spend any time together and when it does it irritates the living heck out of me and I have to find a way to end the conversation as politely as I can and find an exit strategy so as to not further damage the relationship we have nor severely insult his inelligence by lashing out about just how effin crazy I think he is for even considering that we are on a flat plane and that all the things that point to the idea and all those who subscribe to it belong in a mental facility undergoing severe treatment regimens to treat them for utter madness and ask him what sort of brain rot has infested his thought process which would cause him to feel the way he does. But each time I bite my tongue, clench my jaw shut, laugh inside my head, and feel saddened that we can not spend any more time together talking about the things that we do have in common which are many and some of which could lead to some very positive things for both us and those around us and even for the world. The very big beautiful spherical world that we exist in.

So my question is this. If this is such a heated and controvercial topic among scientists and other professionals, why haven’t we sent a few of the top guns in the flearther community up in one of the space rides to squash this ridiculous idea of a flat world once and for all? Certainly there must be enough of us who find the theory a complete joke and an insult to the laws of the universe and would be willing to pitch in enough to send them up. I don’t have the means to pitch in any large sum but I would certainly throw down what I could in an effort to see this crap put to rest and if I did have the means I would fund it entirely in order to shut them the heck up bevcause it’s really starting to get on my nerves! And I’d love nothing more than to have a normal relkationship with my brother!

Because it wouldn’t squash the idea. The people who went would either deny/rationalize what they saw to fit their dogma or they would be convinced and then rejected by everyone else who would call them a sell-out or tricked. Flat Earth isn’t based on science or observation, it’s about “knowing more than the elites and sheep” and you’re not going to get a bunch of people to admit that the sheep were actually correct all along.

I wonder what a “flea earther” is…

Okay, but first we’re going to need your life story.

Well, for one thing, it’s not at all heated or controversial among scientists. In fact, it is so well-established that anyone espousing this belief (scientist or otherwise) clearly demonstrates that they are delusional…or to be more charitable, deeply ignorant.

Sorry about your brother. But thankfully he is one of a relatively small minority who believes this.

Among the general public, 10% think the Earth is flat and an additional 9% “aren’t sure.” Which is actually a bit higher than I would have guessed. But maybe not surprising.

You are likely not going to convince your brother with any amount of evidence. Nor would taking a flat-Earth believer up to space convince them either. They would claim that it was faked. Like most people with conspiratorial beliefs that contradict the mainstream, much of their identity is wrapped up in this belief. Somehow it makes them feel superior.

Again, someone espousing flat-Earth believes in this day and age is either ignorant or delusional. Ignorance can be fixed, if a person has an open mind. But there’s not a lot you can do with a delusional person who is convinced they know the truth and everyone else is lying to them.

And the internet has made this worse. Before the internet, a conspiracy theorist was generally isolated in their delusional beliefs. But you can find anything to support and reinforce your beliefs, no matter how crazy, on the internet. Indeed, the algorithm on YouTube does this automatically in an effort to get users to watch more videos.

There is, or at least used to be, a Flat Earth society here in Chester UK.
They would have a booth at street fairs etc.

I was never sure if they were serious, or if it was a piece of elaborate street theater.
Are you quite sure he isn’t pulling your leg?

As others have said, this is not in the least controversial among professional scientists.

If someone really believes this, it’s probably like fundementalist religion: nothing you can say and no evidence you produce is going to make any difference.

I got 12 chapters into it then gave up.

I see, I guess I didn’t think that through enough. I was just very irritated this morning that once again an attempted visit with my brother went so terribly wrong because of this crap. It’s very saddening. I love the guy but I just can’t do it. He starts with it at some point every time and I just can’t even listen to it and I refuse to engage in a reasonable debate with him because he is irrational in his approach to sell it to me which I’m sure he is aware that he won’t be able to accomplish and this time he took it to another level entirely as he threw God and religion into the mix. I felt myself becoming angered so I just shut up and left.

You could try sending him this article about Mad Mike Hughes, to show that somebody tried to prove Earth is flat, but his rocket launches didn’t pan out too well.

Correction: 10% tell pollsters they think the Earth is flat, and 9% tell them they’re not sure. That’s statistically indistinguishable from the percentage who like to troll pollsters.

“You can’t reason a person out of a belief that they didn’t use reason to hold in the first place.”

– [Paraphrasing] Jonathan Swift

Put another way:

“But what a fool believes, he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away”

-Doobie Brothers

I was only trying to put a bit of history for context. As usual it didn’t go over well apparently. I apologize. I keep forgetting that many people just don’t like to read anymore because like many things in life takes a bit of time and effort. And the exaggeration is a nice touch by the way, cheers…

You cannot talk with Flearthers or SovCits because their arguments are always the same
Refuse to accept ANY proof that you present
Thereby claiming no one has ever proved them wrong
Make claims that their side is correct. Their claims are backed by authorities that agree with their way of thinking already.
Offer no proof to back up their claim.

That argument isn’t going to hold much merit on a text-based message board. It’s just that 90% of your OP was extraneous to the question.

I’m quite positive he’s not kidding. We do both share a similar sense of humor and neither would let a simple josh go on so long especially if either of us saw how much it irritated the other. Thanks for the reply and I do understand where you’re coming from. I only wish I knew how to respond, get past it, and move on to a better topic without seeming like I’m purposely avoiding it and showing my disbelief and how much it bothers me.

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment but I’m afraid that he would just pass this off as stupidity.

From what you say, it sounds as if he knows exactly how much it irritates you and is doing it on purpose?

I’d say all you can do is have a ‘come to Jesus’ talk with him where you say: please, let’s agree to differ and drop this topic. And if he won’t… realize that you don’t really have as much in common with him as you thought or wish you did, and disengage.

By the way, since no one else has said it yet, welcome to the SDMB, @XSIV!

Well, your original post was a bit long (in my opinion), but was well-written, you used paragraphs, and you even put it in the correct forum.

And nobody has to read anything they don’t want to.

Right, @XSIV, it might have been easier to follow if you had broken this up into two separate topics.

First of all, I’m certain that a large percentage – not all, but many – of those who profess belief in a flat earth are just trolls. But let’s consider the subset who are serious.

The only point of sending such people into space is if they never came back. If this could be arranged, I’d personally make a contribution to the cost. :wink:

But otherwise there is absolutely no point. These people not only cannot be reasoned out of their delusion, they can’t be convinced with hard physical evidence, either. This is self-evidently true because the evidence that the Earth is a sphere is all around us every day. One more piece of evidence wouldn’t do the slightest bit of good.

This is not about physical science, it’s about psychology. When someone has held a delusional belief for a long time, to admit they were wrong is to admit that they were ignorant fools. Much easier and more comfortable to just double down and deny any new evidence presented to them.

The issue with CT believers and MAGAts are essentially the same.

They have proven by their own words and deeds that they are gullible morons in thrall to ignorance and obstinance. And maybe, especially the MAGAts, in love with malice.

There are two possiblities going forward:

  • If you get them to never speak to you of their delusions again, you’ll still always know you’re dealing with an ignorant obstinate gullible moron; possibly a malicious one to boot.

  • If, far more likely, you cannot get them to never speak to you of their delusions again, then you’ll be constantly reminded you’re dealing with an ignorant obstinate gullible moron; possibly a malicious one to boot.

What a stupid game that is; the only way to win is not to play.

Shun all such people for your own mental health. One can be nostalgic for the person they once were and the relationship you once had. But since then their brain has been eaten by a worm and they are now just the shell of the person they once were. Look the same on the outside, utterly different and valueless on the inside.