A harness that can constrain a toddler without them hurting themselves and then a staff trained to use it?
Why would an airline or a flight attendants union even want that? Just deplane the uncontrolled toddler. A cancelled flight is better than a lawsuit.
Let’s just say that if those parents ever want to fly again with their child, before it’s old enough to be trusted to use an adult seat best, they should bring a suitable car seat with straps the kid can’t undo.
Airlines already allow parents to bring car seats on board. I don’t think any rule or procedure changes are needed
How do you know parents would not use a harness if provided by the airline if it kept their child safer than a lap belt intended for adults.
Once again, this isn’t something that I claimed. You keep cherry picking and misrepresenting what I said. It’s a waste of time.
And you took a simple suggestion and claimed without knowledge of what your talking about that it would be a huge cost in materials and training and said it would be beyond fucking stupid. Yeah
The fact that the flight was so late at night makes me wonder if maybe the toddler was overtired. That combined with fear would make a very difficult situation. If they ever fly again, I hope his parents might get him some anti-anxiety medication to get through it.
More cherry picking and ignoring my main point.
I see parents strapping kids into car seats on airplanes all the time. You are seeking a solution to a problem that’s already been solved.
And honestly, planes are pretty safe, and the marginal increase in safety provided by a car seat isn’t worth it to many families. (Lap babies are allowed in part because if the increased cost of requiring a seat for them led to more parents driving, more kids would be harmed than are harmed by being unrestrained in airplanes.)
This family needs a car seat to retain their kid. This was a highly unusual situation that made the news. Most families navigate “kids on planes” without anything extra.
I agree, in case it wasn’t clear. I think it’s reasonable to expect the parents to figure out what kind of seating device their kid will need, and bring it.
Yes, I’m sorry, i was agreeing with you. Sometimes that’s unclear. I was disagreeing with @chela .
Nonsense.
This is no evidence kids are worse behaved now than they ever have been. Literally none. In the specific case of airplanes, I have taken more flights than most people - I have to be pushing a thousand - and I can’t remember ANY examples of a kid being a serious problem on an airplane. I can remember ADULTS being problems, but not a child, ever. Ever crying babies have been few and far in between.
In all likelihood this is a very odd circumstance, not just a kid the parent wouldn’t try to control.
I was the passenger once; I got really sick, and as the plane was taxiing away, the flight attendant asked the pilot to go back to the gate. It didn’t take long, and they were on their way within minutes of dropping me off. Everyone was very nice and understanding about it.
My anecdotal experience is that kids are far better behaved than when i was a kid, fwiw.
I am inclined to believe that, yeah. Certainly kids get in trouble with the law less than they used to.
My mother was a schoolteacher and swore up and down that kids had become better behaved throughout her career.
I don’t see anything to be outraged about. Things happen and sometimes they inconvenience a bunch of other people. We’re all in this together.
From @Skywatcher’s link:
Passenger Aryeh Kozuch says there was definitely “a lot of frustration,” but the child wasn’t being bratty or uncontrollable — rather, they were very scared.
There is no reasoning, yelling, restraining, or spanking a kid (or adult) out of their fear.
My kid was recently suspended from Summer camp for a day for standing on a table and throwing things on the floor, while laughing manaically, for about an hour, at which point they called me to come and get him. Whatever you want to believe about my parenting, the truth is that 1) we are authoritative parents who implement clear boundaries and consistent consequences and 2) my son has a disability and very low impulse control, so he sometimes encounters situations he can’t cope with and responds in a way that will garner him the most attention, which gets him even more attention, which reinforces the behavior, ad infinitum. He also has a sleep disorder (hopefully soon resolved) which influences his ability to regulate emotions and affects his memory. It’s hard to learn any kind of lesson when you don’t remember what happened.
It’s easy to blame this on permissive parenting but my direct experience tells me that you can be a consistent and firm parent and still encounter these behaviors because the problem is not always disciplinary. Some of us just have children who struggle to respond appropriately when they are overwhelmed. And it sucks. It sucks that sometimes your best efforts as a parent are not enough to address the problem, no matter how many resources you seek out or how conscientious you are. It sucks to have to leave in the middle of the day to pick up your kid who seems completely oblivious to the seriousness of what has just occurred. And it double sucks to have people judging your parenting when they can’t possibly comprehend the time and effort you’ve put into trying to resolve the issues.
(If you really want to educate yourself about what parenting such a child entails, check out the SAHM thread I started went things got serious enough I had to consider leaving my job.)
The reality is that you can be a really good parent and sometimes kids encounter more than they can cope with. While it may be true that it’s not common for toddlers to do this on airplanes, difficult behavior is nothing uncommon in 1.5 to 3-year old children. This one just happened to be on an airplane. This sucks but it only is getting traction because people love to judge parents. They just relish it. If they ever had kids, they are generally delusional about what kind of parents they actually were, or they attribute their child’s success as evidence that they know how to parent all children, or worse, they don’t have children at all and have no clue about the constant self-doubt, second-guessing and inevitable situations where there’s just no fucking answer.
Which is why I’m not going to stand here and engage in this “if it were my kid” kind of stuff. It’s not helpful and it’s not based on anything meaningful.
When we flew with Celtling, we always brought her car seat. Both because it was safer, and because it was familiar and comfortable for her. She loved flying and never had any issues like this.
But if she had, hitting her certainly would not have been on my list of solutions. I missed the cite where we got the information that the child was terrified and hiding under the seat. But if true, anyone who thinks the best response to terror is to hit a child has definitely not “turned out all right.”
An average weight for a three year old child is about 30 pounds. That’s the same size as a female staffordshire terrier. If you think you could wrestle down a terrified Staffy you don’t know dogs. And if you think you could wrestle down a terrified three-year-old, you don’t know children.
It’s obvious from the fact that they turned the plane around that this was not a simple discipline issue. Most likely it was a full-on meltdown, and neither the child nor the parent had any power to end it once it started. People who think you could just hit the child and end it are oversimplifying the situation to their comfort level.
That’s just not how a meltdown works. It’s also not how terror works. Once a human being has reverted to instinctive self-protection there is no more reasoning with them. And “shocking them out of it” with pain is a myth that only deepens the problem.
There’s just not enough information to know why it happened, but I’m not aware of many situations in which more child beating is the answer.
IANA parent, but I know families where they raised one or two well-behaved kids, then the second or third was a nightmare, regularly throwing tantrums.
This observation makes me think that an awful lot is just down to how the individual kid is wired.
Not that I’d be inclined to judge but this makes me even less so.
Yes, i can’t imagine that hitting a terrified toddler would improve any situation.
Indeed thanks for posting that, I’ll note your article mentions an FAA approved CARES harness. Yes a harness. Apparently it’s lightweight easy to use and relatively inexpensive. While airlines may provide infant bassinets on long haul flights and loop belts that attach an infant in arms to the adult belt, they don’t provide the CARES harness.