It probably wasn’t. But something apparently pretty close was. Seems pretty silly to cancel this one, wave off two billion appropriated dollars, then suggest that the years-long process be undertaken again from scratch only to regain a similar end some time in the future. This is compounded by the amount of money already expended, which now is simply wasted.
Don’t get me wrong, I was no proponent of high speed rail systems from the get-go, quite some years past. Florida truly does not have the infrastructure to support high speed rail except for some few specific corridors in which it might serve a worthwhile purpose. But case in point probably came the closest to viability in Florida, given the tourism tie-in for this particular corridor, and given the likelihood of Disney and its brethren actively participating. Here we had massive tourist attractions and a major airport in the middle of the state, and beaches and the possibility of cruise ships on both nearly-equidistant coasts.
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While I’m not in the highway-building(or railway) industry, I expect a lot of paperwork and details are needed to build a rail system. It may not be as simple as asking the government for money and building it. State approval may be necessary.
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Sure, you would need to get all sorts of stuff worked out. Environmental impact, for one thing. However, I seriously doubt the state would object to having the thing built on someones dime other than their own. In fact, if this guy is doing this for purely ideological reasons he should be jumping through hoops to have private industry build the thing…and if they can get grant money, well, that’s no ideological skin off the Gov. of Florida’s nose.
Well, for starters there’s no Six Flags in Florida. I somehow doubt they’re going to chip in. Universal doesn’t directly benefit as much as Disney, so while they might put up some money betting on increased tourism they aren’t going to fund the whole thing. Disney, of course, has already offered money toward the project.
And despite Scott’s claims about the construction costs, they already are as close to zero as possible anyway. Not only does Florida not have to put up the initial $280 million to get the Federal funds, but Florida is not responsible for any construction overrun costs or costs related to delay.
Discussing operating costs and projected numbers of passengers is also just a tad premature as the Department of Transportation hasn’t released that study yet so there isn’t any factual data to discuss.
And Tampa is just as upset about this as Orlando. It’s not like this is Disney trying to talk the state into paying for it’s own transport costs. Yeah, they benefit, but so do plenty of others.
On the Tampa end there were also plans to make it easier to get to/from Tampa Airport. If you’re looking for things that would be within “walking distance” of each terminal that’s probably not going to be much no matter where you try and run the line. Florida just wasn’t built that way. http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/
The basic problem with this analysis is that it counts spending on fuel as a credit to driving’s balance, rather than a debit. Private spending on fuel (and maintenance) for private motor vehicles is part of the total cost of that system, not a magical source of revenue.
When we talk about the costs of rail, we’re talking about the costs of building the right-of-way and the rails themselves and attendant facilities, plus acquiring rolling stock plus staffing and maintenance and all the other operating costs. Far too often, the cost of a driving-based system is imagined to be the cost of roads alone.
High-speed rail is an unfeasible idea in most places in the US, and Tampa and Orlando are worst of all.
HSR only works when you’re connecting dense urban populations that are at great enough distances that there’s a time savings, but not so far that planes are a better choice. Tampa and Orlando are two highly decentralized cities – as much so as any in the nation – and they’re close together.
From UCF, on the east side of Orlando, to Clearwater on the west side of St. Pete takes two hours in a car. Done that trip a dozen times or more.
To take a high-speed train, I’d drive to downtown Orlando, park, buy a ticket, go through some security crap, and then get on the train and wait for the departure. I’m guessing I’d leave my house at 1 or 1:15 to catch a 2:00 train. The train ride gets me to Downtown Tampa in what, 30 minutes? But I’m not going to downtown Tampa. Nobody does – Tampa’s a craphole. To get to the beach, or Ybor, or USF, or any of the residential neighborhoods, you’d have to call a taxi or a catch a bus (which run way less often than in most big cities) or something. By the time you do it’s costing you more money and taking more time. And that was starting on the extreme edge of east Orlando – if I lived in Metro West, the train is an even worse option because my driving trip was shorter to begin with.
And of course, we aren’t even factoring in the disadvantages mass transit has with not leaving when you want if your plans change, either leaving a few minutes later than planned or coming home because I decided to stay longer (You think they’re gonna run a 4 a.m. train from Tampa to bring people back from Mons Venus? Not likely), the reduced cost if it’s more than one passenger, etc.
In short: Nobody would ride the damn thing. The State would end up spending at least part of the cost to build it, and then millions upon millions every damn year to keep a train running that would serve very few people.
With rail you can get there faster because you don’t have the long airport waits. Detroit to Chicago is a good trip by train. Before you checked in the airport and paid extra for carrying a bag with you. You would be in Chicago.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. I was puzzled by Gonzo claiming it would be quicker to take the train than fly, though on second though, he’s right…if there are no flights between Tampa and Orlando then it WOULD be quicker to take the train. Well, once the train is built…
Tampa is the weak link here. I looked at the current rail service between the two cities so I could go to a gaming convention in Tampa and get wasted plus not have to worry about crowded parking, but the train service stops nowhere near the convention hotel. If the Tampa Bay area had really good public transportation, people would be railing it to Tampa from Orlando already, despite there only being a slow conventional rial link. The price is extremely cheap. Like under $20 cheap. That’s cheaper than driving unless you’re packing lots of people into a Kia.
There doesn’t need to be any security crap. I got to Gare du Nord in Paris about a minute before my train was due to leave, paid the taxi driver, ran through the station and still caught the train.
I agree entirely that there doesn’t need to be; that’s no guarantee that there won’t be. Either way, it’s not the point – getting to the station, parked and on the train is going to take a half hour or more for most of the residents of either metro area.
This little issue was the talk of the town today! The not-so-hidden subtext here is that Scott just made the upcoming Legislative session very dangerous for himself. This project has been the subject of a Constitutional Amendment and prior legislation. The Legs are PISSED that Scott made this announcement with no advance warning to them. In fact, today, a veto-proof number of Senators (almost all Republicans) sent him a letter today telling him he fucked up. Further, there’s now talk that he can’t turn it down. Since the authorizing language has already passed a previous Legislature and been signed by a previous Governor, his action essentially consitute an after-the-fact (and past the deadline) veto. Courts/lawsuits have been whispered about. Finally the USDOT is giving Florida a week or so to try to rescue the deal, but since session hasn’t officially started yet, I can’t see how a week helps.
Nobody. AFAIK, there are no flights. Again, they’re too close.