I’m unclear on authority of the Florida legislature to select the electors. I did a search on “Florida legislature”, but didn’t find an answer. Certainly, if the certification of Bush electors is reversed, but no certification of Gore electors is made, they have the authority to select the electors for the electoral college. If the Bush electors remain certified, it’s a moot point.
What I’m wondering is, if the courts find that Gore in fact received more votes (however that happens isn’t relevent here), and rule that he therefore won the election, can the legislature still legally override that result, and select the Bush electors instead?
If so, could any other state override their state’s vote as well, and send whichever set of electors they feel like?
I think it states in the US Constitution that the state legislature DOES have the authority to appoint the electors under their discretion. I may have interpreted it wrong though. Article II Section 1
IANAL, but I believe that technically, the Florida legislature can override the state vote and choose new electors no matter how the election turns out. Except for very unusual circumstances, this would be a politically unwise thing to do, though.
I think that the Florida legislature is just getting ready in case the courts drag it out.
I don’t think that the Bush slate of electors has been “officially” appointed as the Florida electors. If not, and it drags out in court, then Florida’s electors [and voters] will be ignored, and Gore will win since he has the majority of the nationally selected electors.
In that case, the legislature would select the electorial voters, presumably the Bush slate, since he is currently ahead.
I agree that if the courts rule that Gore is the winner and orders the state to select Gore’s electorial slate, the legislature would probably not challenge the courts
That is incorrect, Starfish. The winning candidate must have a majority of the electoral votes (270+) to be declared president. Gore has more than Bush, but not a majority. If Florida’s electoral votes are not awarded to anyone, the presidential election will be turned over to the House of Representatives, who will presumably vote for Bush.
My understanding is that it is unknown whether, if Florida doesn’t send any electors, whether the candidates only need a majority of the electors sent, or a still need a majority of the possible electors (i.e. 270). I’m not even certain it’s explicit who would get to make that decision, congress or the US Supreme Court.
Now, I’m not a lawyer, but from what I’ve read the US Constitution permits the Florida legislature to appoint electors in whatever way it sees fit, meaning according to state law. Florida state law says that the legislature can intervene and appoint its own slate of electors if the results of the election are in doubt on December 12. This would seem to indicate that if ANY court case is still pending on that date which COULD result in the overturning of the election results, the state legislature can send whoever it wants.
As far the electoral college goes, there is an arguement as to whether a candidate needs 271 votes, period; or a simple majority of electors. What I mean by that is, if Florida sends no electors at all, or if Congress refuses to accept them, will a candidate still need 271 electors, or a majority of the 516 electors left with Florida excluded? The Constitution states:
The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be no more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by Ballot one of them for President
The phrase “Number of Electors appointed” can be interpreted as “appointed by the states”, and therefore 271 is a majority; or “accepted (therefore appointed) by Congress”, and therefore 259 is majority. If it is the former, then no one has it, and the House picks (and Bush wins). If the latter, Gore wins.
If it comes to this, look for the US Supreme to be called upon to provide the interpretation.
Really? . See: This
Further articles quote high ranking Republicans as using this as "an Insurance policy. My reading of news sources lead me to the conclusion that the Florida legislature intends to step in if and only if Bush is not selected as the final winner. Which means, to me, at least that they have already decided who the winner should be, regardless of the result of any court challenges or decision
or Insurance Policy
Smitty IANAL either, however, should the Florida courts and counts go in Gore’s favor, if the Florida Legislature takes this action, it would have some serious political fallout - even the republicans in Florida suggesting this, admit it.
“The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed”
So if Florida does not appoint any electors, then Gore can win with less than 270.
Of course, Article II says:
“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors”
So the state would be in violation of the constitution if they don’t appoint electors.
Also, I was wrong, CNN does say the Bush’s win in Florida was certified, so his electors are in place unless the courts stop them. Then, presumably the legislature could appoint them.
[QUOTE**Smitty IANAL either, however, should the Florida courts and counts go in Gore’s favor, if the Florida Legislature takes this action, it would have some serious political fallout - even the republicans in Florida suggesting this, admit it. **[/QUOTE]
Oh, no argument there. I was speculating on the legal aspect of it. The political aspect is a whole different ball of wax.
If you check the National Archives home page for the Electoral College (sorry, I don’t have the exact URL, but you can start at http://www.nara.gov and there should be a link), only two states have sent a “Certificate of Ascertainment” to the National Archives saying who its electors are. At 10:00 am PST only Idaho and Louisiana have signed off on theirs. All 50 states and DC will have those certificates displayed at the website as they arrive.
I don’t believe that the certificates are due until December 12.
This is not the actual vote, it’s just who the electors are going to be.
I looked at both of your cites. Both report that the Florida legislature is getting ready in case the courts stop Florida from using the election results to appoint electors. Then the legislature will appoint them, as allowed by the constitution.
Granted, one of your cites does use the phase “Democrats believe” so you may be a Democrat.
No one else believes the legislature is doing anything but getting ready in case they have to act to ensure that Florida appoints electors. Right now the Bush slate will be named.
If the courts rule that Gore wins, then Gore’s slate will be appointed. But the courts have to rule by the December 12 deadline or the legislature will appoint their own slate.
If the courts blocks the use of the voted on slate of electors, then the legislature will appoint their own slate of electors.
You are correct in that the FSL do not state “we will make sure that Bush electors are named”. However, they state that they are poised to intervene should the court battles be still on going . Keep in mind, of course, if , for example, USSC, FSSC, and all the other counties rule against Bush, all they’d have to do is file one appeal to any of the decisions, anywhere in order for that requirement to be fufilled. The committe for calling for such a special session was predominately republican, as is the FSL. You are technically correct that Jeb Bush’s state legislature, who is heavily Republican could vote, over George W. Bush’s wishes, to certify Gore as the winner, but, it is more than highly unlikely.
The way I see it, the Florida legislature is trying to ensure that Florida has 25 electors on Dec 12.
Right now, Bush has won the Florida election and his slate of electors will become the appointed electors on Dec 12. The legislature should stay out of it.
Gore is contesting the election. If the courts agree with him and name Gore the winner before Dec 12, then Gore’s slate becomes will become the appointed electors on Dec 12. Bush can, of course, appeal, but then it would be Gore winning and the legislature should stay out of it.
If the courts decide to void the election, either in all of Florida [I don’t think there is time] or in selected counties, then the legislature will probably step in and appoint electors.
From what I’ve read, the Florida legislature hasn’t admitted to any of this. The only possibility for Gore to win they’ve admitted to (that I’ve seen) is Jeb Bush saying “If the U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with the Florida Legislature, I think the United States Supreme Court trumps the Legislature”. Well, that’s mighty nice of him.
If you or anyone else can point me to a scenario the Florida legislators have acknowledged where Gore wins Florida, and they wouldn’t take action (apart from a US Supreme Court decision), I’d be much relieved.
(I’ll concede that if public opinion polls look bad enough, they’d probably back off. But that’s hardly the right way to make such an important decision.)
actually, the quote from the FSL was to convene “as soon as possible” - not “as soon as it’s clear that the court cases will not have a chance to get through the system before the 12”.
And, keep in mind that the stance of the FSL announcing it’s intent to convene has the effect of guarenteeing a Bush victory:
Case A. Bush prevails in court. Gore has right to appeal, but to do so will pave the way for FSL to fill in the blanks. No one is disputing how they would vote.
Case B. Gore prevails in court. Bush appeals, etc.
Starfish sez that no one believes that the Legislature is doing anything but making prelimary, precautionary steps to prevent Florida not having electors.
Well, its not exactly the Legislature. Its the Republican legislators and thats a different kettle of piranha. If the court cases go in Gores favor they will, I have no doubt, vote their guy in. Yes, there will be a public opinion backlash. So what? They get the power and that is (drumroll) ** all that counts**. Period.
If the voice of the People were the concern, Bush would say something like “Hey, I lost the popular vote, I trust the people, I won’t take the Presidency on an Electoral College technicality”.
Anybody who beleives he likely to do that had best check thier medication schedule.