“My daughter, who goes to Stuyvesant High School only blocks from the World Trade Center, thinks we should fly an American flag out our window. Definitely not, I say: The flag stands for jingoism and vengeance and war. She tells me I’m wrong–the flag means standing together and honoring the dead and saying no to terrorism. In a way we’re both right: The Stars and Stripes is the only available symbol right now. In New York City, it decorates taxicabs driven by Indians and Pakistanis, the impromptu memorials of candles and flowers that have sprung up in front of every firehouse, the chi-chi art galleries and boutiques of SoHo. It has to bear a wide range of meanings, from simple, dignified sorrow to the violent anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bigotry that has already resulted in murder, vandalism and arson around the country and harassment on New York City streets and campuses.”
Well, the flag symbolizes her right to hate the flag. If she thinks that the flag is “jingoistic warmongering”, then it follows that the right to speak freely is as well.
The flag is a symbol of our country, and for the civil rights we hold so dear.
If she doesn’t like it, she is welcome to try another country. Perhaps she’d prefer Afganistan.
Or perhaps she should re-evaluate what it means to be part of a free society.
You know this whole concept that’s floating occasionally, that war is NEVER acceptable is pretty naive. There is a a time for war. You can debate whether this is such a time; I’m firmly on the side that it is. But during such a war-time, solidarity and flag-waving are key to singularity of purpose.
And as for her child understanding the value of flag waving and her not: well, it’s good to see she hasn’t completely corrupted the values of her child.
I love this country. One of the main things I love about it is the fact that we all get along pretty well considering the wide range of opinions we voice so loudly.
Bleeding-heart liberal peaceniks and war-mongering right-wing reactionaries are free to criticize the government that protects them both.
One reason I display an American flag is that I’m under no pressure to do so. And the main reason I have no desire to burn the American flag is the fact that I have the right to do so.
Peace,
TN*hippie
“Personally, I think that we should use hard-earned tax dollars to pay drug-crazed homosexual flag-burning felons to go into citizens’ homes to confiscate their guns and teach Satanism to their children. But that’s just my opinion. Some folks may disagree.”
Well, if the flag stands for jingoism and vengeance and war, then my local junior college must be a bunch of vengeful jingoistic warmongers, 'cause they’ve got it featured prominently on the cover of their Spring 2002 catalog.
Ahh, yes. Commie, pinko, bleeding-heart liberal Stuyvesant parents. The only ones more nutty are some of thier kids, although not in this case apparently.
I guess things haven’t changed too much in 25 years.
I grew up with the sense that the flag represented the military and economic might of America more than Americas extrordinary pursuit of liberty and equality. I always knew that the flag represented both, but saw it more often associated with the former than the latter. I have made a point for years to promote the broader view of the flags significance; if you want a symbol to carry meaning, you have to use it. Jingoists jump at any chance to use the flag, so it has become more associated with that attutude. The best way to combat this is for all Amercans to take pride in and display the flag.
What is going on in 2001 is different than complaining about the war against peasants in Vietnam in the 60s and 70s. In this instance the flag represents our solidarity with the families of the victims and each other.
Someone on the board the other day compared wanting to outlaw flag burning to be the equivilent of charging into a burning house to rescue a photo of the family while leaving the family sleeping. (Wish I’d thought of that metaphor/simile, it is quite good.) By wearing the flag here we are letting people know that they are family.
Traveling throughout Europe I always noticed flags hung from residences. I admired those people who are proud of their countries. I regard hanging an American flag as a personal choice, similar to wearing black when a loved one dies. I don’t blindly hang a flag or wear a flag pin. It all has personal meaning for me. FWIW
My kid always loved flags, just because they were colorful and pretty.
And she wanted me to put one on our porch, like my rightwing gun-nut neighbor. We settled for one on the back porch.
Now, fortunately, she has changed her mind and put a peace flag on the pole. It’s still out back though. This country isn’t free enough for us to put it out front.
I value the diversity of opinion much more than the rote patriotism and religions that inflicted on those unable to resist, particularly in our schools.
When there is a climate in which opinions and beliefs can be safely expressed, then there is the beginning of debate that can refute and clairify our beliefs. That is the basic tenent of our society, as expressed in the first amendment. While a free debate won’t change the opinions of the nutjobs expressing the more extreme beliefs, but it may affect those who are sincerely seeking answers.
So while I don’t agree with the Katha Pollitts of this country – I’m far more militant than this reasoned discussion would indicate – I’d rather see an honest expression and refutation of her opinion than suppression.
Flying a peace flag now is tantamount to saying, “Those people in New York got what they deserved because they are citizens in a country that strives to defeat the Peace Loving Freedom Fighters.”
That would go over like a turd in a punchbowl.
But knowing that, it would be a sign of courage to fly one. Wanting to have a peaceful world is a good thing. But “there is a time for peace and a time for war.” Imagine the man who robs a liquor store and kills the person behind the counter. Should we declare peace and let him go on his way? After all, if Society had not been engineered to keep the robber/killer from a life of crime (the poor lad was probably hassled in the past for committing other “crimes”), then the lady behind the counter would still be alive. It’s her fault she’s dead, for being a citizen in a society that conspires against the well-being of people who have no choice but to rob and kill.
We would do everything we could to catch the killer and bring him to justice. Osama bin Laden is a criminal and needs to be brought to justice. Or does he have a special status that allows him to kill with impunity? He and the people he controls and works with have violated the laws of their own God, and the laws of Man. For this they must be caught and prosecuted. There is no difference but of scale between the terrorists and a common hood.
As for the American flag. “Jingoistic and warmongering”? I like to spend time in Canada. I see Candian flags flying in front of homes and boats, and I see Canadian flag stickers on cars. Does that mean that Canadians are jingoistic warmongers? Or does it just mean that they are proud of their country?
Maybe there are different rules for the U.S. Maybe it’s okay for every other citizen of every other country to fly their nation’s banner as a sign of pride, but this is not allowed in the U.S. because the only time we can fly the flag is to show what ignorant, violent bastards we are.
Or maybe the Canadians are more warlike than anyone thought.
Did Christ say there was “a time for war”? That sounds more Roman than Christian. Maybe there’s a time to pit your enemies against lions for the gratification of the masses?
Isn’t peace the whole point of this war? So that we can eventually have peace? People prayed for peace in every war we’ve had. They didn’t wait until the end of the war, they prayed every day for peace through victory. The harder fought the war, the harder people have prayed for peace.
A peace flag is not a Taliban flag, nor a surrender flag, nor an upraised finger. It expresses the hope for peace, which is one of the things that distinguishes us from the terrorists - we want peace and unity among all people, the terrorists want war, fear, and division.
I agree. But the way I read Alpha’s post was that the U.S. flag and the Peace flag are contradictory. They are not; that’s just what I got from her post.
I originally had another statement before the first one that appeared in my post. The gist of it was that while I, personally, understand the symbolism of the Peace flag, other people would take it in the way that I indicated.
Actually, I got the feeling you were heading that direction in your post, and was surprised that you didn’t mention it. Perhaps the best solution would be a peace flag under the American flag.
I have a good friend who is so far left he makes me look like Milossarian, who found a flag in his garage left there by the former owners. He decided to put it up. I quote him: “just so I can take it down the minute we do something stupid.”