Perhaps this should be moved to GD?
Otto, I haven’t experienced any of the additional services that the government has to offer as the result of being married but then I’ve never applied for any sort of aid either.
That said, I personally support your to marry and enjoy all the bennies afforded to heterosexual married couples by 1)advocating gay rights and 2)voting for political candidates that support #1 (and trust me, that’s no small feat in Texas some election years.) You could reap the advantages of the marriage tax too.
Now, if you thought you should receive special benefits because you’re gay and married-that’d be a different story.
As to:
Aha, but you see, as a citizen, I have a vested interest in an educated and coherent work force.
I want some one that is capable of reading my pill bottles when I get to the nursing home.
Back to ** nitroglycerine**: You seem to be making difficult choices to provide your son with a loving stable home. However, I didn’t get that feeling from your earlier posts. It was most likely my misreading of them but I got a more 'Neener neener-I’m working the system and staying home while you work…" attitude. I think you were being a bit tongue in cheek in some of your later replies but I’ve now taken the time to really read your first post and I realized I’ve gone off half-cocked. Apologies for being a pompous ass.
I’m 48 and I’d hate to be schlepping trays or banging pots for 60-70 hours a week without insurance too.
How is a low-interest government loan for college considered welfare. I’d say it’s an investment.
Thats OK, I think what bothers everyone, is that I don’t feel “food stamp remorse”. It WOULD be easy for me to go get a restaurant management job, but I just don’t want the stress that comes with it while trying to raise a baby. Not only that, I’ve just realized in the last year that I’m NOT 18 anymore. Just working 40 hours wears me out. I know that there’s no way I could do the 16 hour days I always ended up doing in management and still be a quality father. I might be working the system to my advantage in a way, but IMHO I’m a poster child for what the food stamp program SHOULD be for. Its an income supplement, not outright support from the government. I wish I was eligible for medical insurance too. Hell, I wish EVERYBODY was eligble for national health care.
Jon
Since the federal highway system is paid for with taxes, I think we ought to see some changes. First off, large cars and SUVs have got to go. I’m not going to substidize people driving around in gas guzzling bohemoths.
Secondly, everyone knows it is far healthier to walk than to drive (I mean, how stupid can these people be?) so all driving distances under five miles should be banned. In fact, you ought to fill out forms stating where you intend to go, and seek approval for your journey. Finally, those living on bus routes should not be allowed to have cars at all. They can make due with the bus.
Green Bean, you read my mind (and drew a blank, no doubt).
Have two different styles of food stamps in each booklet. About 10% of the value may be used on non-essentials (i.e., soda, chips etc.). The remainder must be used on meats costing less than $3.[sup]00[/sup] a pound and other staples.
One simple prohibition; NO FROZEN FOODS may be bought with the bulk tickets. The stuff is double or triple the price of what regular food costs.
Canadian bacon? Right out.
Lobster? No way.
Steaks? Not gonna happen.
Luxuries like those above plus coffee, tea and cream must all be purchased with the special stamps. It would cost a bit more to implement but it would stop a lot of abuse.
Eventually, we need to move to a phone card - debit card type system where NO MONEY changes hands. No going through line six times to accumulate change for smokes. No trading your food stamps for drugs or alcohol. It would not prohibit people trading their food for these same things but it would make such transactions a lot more awkward.
Eventually, we need to move to a phone card - debit card type system where NO MONEY changes hands. No going through line six times to accumulate change for smokes. No trading your food stamps for drugs or alcohol. It would not prohibit people trading their food for these same things but it would make such transactions a lot more awkward.
Some states already do this. WV does. Before they went to the debit card system, though, I saw cashiers giving back customers change in the form of food stamps, so apparently it was harder here to do the buy-a-pack-of-gum-and-get-the-cash-for-cigs routine.
Why on god’s green earth should my husband and I work to subsidize your lifestyle choices?
Playing devil’s advocate here (I’m on the fence on this issue), but you do this every day of your life. Your tax dollars pay for other people’s abortions and birth control. Your tax dollars are there when someone has a heart attack and goes to the hospital without insurance. Your tax dollars pay for some stupid 20 year old kid who gets in a car drunk, gets in a crash and ends up on total disability for the rest of their life. Your tax dollars pay for HeadStart programs and school lunch programs. So why complain just about this one issue? Your money goes every day to other people to subsidize the choices they have made for themselves. I’m not saying it’s fair, or that you should have to pay for other people’s choices, but it’s not like we get to pick and choose where our tax dollars go.
Here’s something I’d be interested in knowing: how much does the average American tax payer pay towards the food stamp program yearly? Anyone have an idea or know where I could find it?
I’m all for social safety-nets.
I’m also all for limits on that safety-net. It should be temporary assistance, designed to get people back into the workforce, or over an unlucky hump, not become a ‘lifestyle choice’ for those who’d rather not work and pay their own way.
I see too many people abusing the system, and I’m sure those are the ones who stand out, not the ones who are truly grateful for the extra help and doing their best to get off it. I think the main problem most people have with some aspects of welfare is the “entitlement attitude”. Those who think the ‘deserve’ help and are ‘owed’ the assistance… and those are the ones who spoil it for the rest and stigmatise being a welfare recipient.
YMMV, of course. 
The old style food stamps (in booklets Zenster) were used as cash, with a special provision (at least in GA, when I was a cashier). Let’s say you buy $116.04 in groceries, and paid with 6 $20 coupons. I would give you 3 in food stamp coupons and .96 cash. I never had anyone go through my line multiple times just to keep getting cash back. It would be really annoying considering you’d get less than $1 a trip.
Most states IIRC now use the “EBT” system, where the recipient gets a card that is used as a debit card. Said person gets a deposit on the card every month, and can use it for groceries (as described above).
For those of you who are completely “anti-welfare”, what do you think moms with deadbeat dads should do? Let their children starve? You don’t KNOW someone is going to be a loser when you have a child with them. All kinds of parents end up not taking care of their kids. 
~J
I’m also all for limits on that safety-net. It should be temporary assistance, designed to get people back into the workforce, or over an unlucky hump, not become a ‘lifestyle choice’ for those who’d rather not work and pay their own way.
If I’m not mistaken here in WV I believe the lifetime limit is 5 years. You’d better either go to school in those 5 years, or you can waste the 5 years working minimum wage and accepting very little help in the meantime.
I think limits are a good idea but I really wish they would push college down WVian’s throats. We’re dead last in college graduates and what would be the point of going on welfare for 5 years, busting your ass at Wal-Mart, getting a whole $25 in food stamps a month or whatever … only to get off welfare in 5 years and still be no better off?
Huh? Since when?
I find that the frozen foods that I buy are cheaper or at least more economical than the non-frozen ones. For example, I like to keep a bag of diced green pepper in the freezer because I like to sometimes use a little in a quickie “western omelet.” On a pound per pound basis, the frozen green pepper is about the same price as the fresh, and it’s more economical for this use because I only use a little at a time (about 1/4 of a fresh green pepper’s worth) and the rest doesn’t spoil. I frequently buy fresh green peppers too, but it’s cheaper and easier to use the frozen for the occasional omelette. I also buy Italian Village brand cheese ravioli. Pathmark puts it on sale for buy one get two free at least once a month. And they recently put out some coupons. So, I’ve been getting 3 bags of good quality ravioli for 2 bucks, or 66 cents a bag. That’s way cheap, no matter how you slice it.
Maybe those frozen meals like the Stouffer’s ones are expensive? I don’t know. I never buy them. I guess I don’t buy much frozen food.
(The other day, I was going to the store, and my husband said that he wanted frozen pizza. I realized that I had never in my life had frozen pizza. Isn’t that weird? He just couldn’t believe it. I had no idea what to buy, so I got the store brand, on sale at 2 packages for 3 bucks. That was a lot of food for 3 bucks! And the verdict as far as the taste–well I wouldn’t say it was “good” exactly, but it was strangely enjoyable. I might well get it again.)
I was referring to the frozen prepared meals, not vegetables. Thanks for requesting clarification. Again, a simple rule of thumb being no more than $3.[sup]00[/sup] a pound by weight or something of that sort.
Fear not, I have never bought a frozen pizza in my life either.
Hmmm.
I’m really starting to like Zenster’s ideas a lot. Seems to me that they would be more workable with paper food stamps than with the EBT cards, though, because with the card, there would have to be a separate account set up for the “treat” type stuff. Maybe we could go with some combination of the two- have the EBT used only for the actual good food, and give the food stamp recipient a book of paper stamps equivalent to a much smaller amount of money for the treats, or more expensive food items that the person may want to purchase for special occasions.
Seems like an effective compromise.
First, I very much doubt this is going to happen. There are measures that can be taken to prevent such a thing. Plus, I’m pretty sure I’d have to take tons of fertility drugs to be able to conceive anyway. But if for some reason I did want a child, I’d make damn well sure I could afford it first.
Second, government programs to help with educational expenses should be considered an investment. I firmly believe that if you accept this type of aid, you should have to pay it back if you do not maintain certain academic levels OR if you drop-out before completing your education. Also, you should be required to do work for the gov’t/community at some point after you finish school. That could be volunteer work to help with troubled teens or whatever, as long as you are helping out. For loans, I don’t consider that welfare. The point of it being called a loan is that you must pay it back, just the same as if you borrowed from a bank. I don’t think food stamps and healthcare programs require you to pay that back.
It makes ME a hypocrite? I don’t think what someone else does makes me a hypocrite. It was his choice how he paid for school, not mine. However, I honestly don’t know what he used to pay for school, but I assume he used the money he had saved up from working. He only went to a tech school for a year or so, but I don’t know how much that kind of things costs.
And Nitroglycerine I really don’t think you should be taking everything mentioned in this thread as a personal insult against you. If you can justify to yourself that you are doing what you think is right, that’s fine. You are the one who has to live with the decisions you make, not us.
Zenster
I think you have some wonderful ideas that would be great in helping to stop the abuse. Ideas…that make sense…NAHHH…that would never go over with the government.
guy_from_wpa What you said is so very true. Once you have worked at any type of place that accepts food stamps or the EBT card, your whole outlook on the welfare system changes. Here you are working a low-paying job trying to make it, barely scraping by, and here comes these people with a cart full of stuff that you can’t afford, paying with government money. It gets to you after a while. I never had a strong opinion against gov’t programs until I got out in the workforce in jobs such as that. Once I saw what was going on, my whole view changed. Maybe I just remember the bad ones, but I swear there seemed to be more of them than good ones. I shall never forget the day a lady with about 6 huge gold rings in a nice big Caddy pulled up and loaded up the trunk with 12-packs of soda that she came in and purchased with food stamps. Or the young couple who come in at the grocery store and buy t-bones and NY strip.
I think tanookie summed it up best with this:
Errr…what a way to start the morning.
But again, to answer the OP, there definitely should be limits and also education about how to spend what you are given wisely and on foods that are good for you.
Some of you appear to be saying that poor people must practice abstinence. After all, they can’t afford children, and abstinence is the only way to be sure a pregnancy won’t result from intercourse.
Kids happen, folks. Even when you are careful. I really loathe this holier-than-thou attitude about “not having kids you can’t afford.” Mother Nature laughs pretty hard at such plans.
I believe poor people should be able to have sex. I hope that if finances are tight, they will practice birth control. But if birth control fails, or if they fail to be careful, I don’t think their kids should go hungry. Nor do I think their parents must show, for our benefit, a certain degree of “food stamp shame.”
I welcome reforms that will prevent abuse and poor use of public assistance. I hope such reforms are adopted. There have been excellent ideas proposed here.
Most people need food to be “educated and coherent.” Thus you have a vested interest in the feeding of the people whose education you are also subsidizing.
Otto, please go back and re-read all of my post.
I get the uncomfortable feeling that you’re deliberately trying to provoke me and I’m not sure why.
OK, I re-read your post. What is it that I’m supposedly missing that makes you think my response was to “deliberately…provoke” you?
I grew up on welfare. I grew up on hamburger helper, shake-n-bake pork chops, canned green beans (canned fruit was too expensive) and the cheapest cuts of meat possible. The end of the month usually involved Ramen and peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches for dinner. Fresh orange juice was completly unheard of, but powdered milk was not. I think you guys are seriously overestimating welfare benefits. It’s not a fun-n-easy life. It is a hard one to grow up in but it is an even harder one to raise kids in.
I also grew up in substidized housing, so I can tell you a thing or two about government assistance. Most the people on welfare are good honest people. And most of the people were just in a period of transistion where they were trying to find a job, or finishing up school, and trying to feed their kids at the same time. Most wanted nothing more in the world to be off welfare. And all were acheingly poor. I’d never seen anyone buy a new car from a lot until I was in Middle School. I didn’t know that most people don’t shop at thrift stores. The myth of the “welfare queen” is just that- a myth.
I met very few “lifers”, and those that were had very extreme circumstances. I’m talking about things like trying to raise your drug-addicted sister’s kids while your bones are breaking from cancer and still trying to get hired full time at your job until days before your death. Bad things happen to people. For some people the bad things just keep happening. For very very few people in this world, there are pits that they just can’t get out of. And sadly sometimes despite everyone’s best intentions, children get dragged into those pits. There has to be something for them.
Anyway, I just don’t think it is our right to make welfare people jump through any hoop we can think of. The poor deserve some dignity. They shouldn’t be forced to dance a jig or explain and justify their every purchase. Some spend wisely, some don’t. All face choices like “orange sugar drink is a quarter of the price of orange juice.” Almost all face limits on their time and energy, and kids that are bombarded with advertisments for crap food all day. All are trying to do the best for their kids and face the same forces that every parent faces. And all face circumstances that only their closest friends may know. We can judge them by peeking into their carts all we want, but rarely will those judgments be sound.