If a missed field goal lands in the field of play in an NFL game, the ball is live. However, if the defense opts not to touch it, the defense gets to take over at the spot of the kick. As long as the defense doesn’t screw up, it always gets the good end of the deal. If the kick is blocked, the defense gets the ball at the spot of the kick, unless it’s blocked behind the line of scrimmage. Then the defense gets the ball wherever it ends up. At least I think that’s the case.
You can return a missed field goal. The Jets gave up a touchdown on this last season. It doesn’t happen very often.
As for quick kicks, they’ve been done on 2nd and 1st down in the past. In the 1930s and 40s, it was common strategy for teams to punt the ball a lot in an attempt to improve their field position. Since the game was relatively low-scoring then, coaches thought that a turnover would often decide the game.
Sammy Baugh holds the NFL record for average yardage per punt for a career. It’s 45.1 yards per kick. He has the single season record at 51.4. There had to be a fair number of quick kicks to be able to accomplish that.
I believe jbird3000 was referring to the CFL, where you only get 3 downs, instead of 4.
I remember back in the 80’s when ESPN would broadcast, alongside speedboat racing and Australian Rules Football, CFL games. Just different enough from the NFL to fry one’s brain: 12 players per side; 3 downs instead of 4; 110 yards between goal lines; deep end zones (far more than 10 yards); wider field (I think); and some way that I don’t recall to score a single point (besides a PAT).
Tuning into a football game and hearing the score announced as 10-1 kind of grabs you. It was fun to watch.
Actually, this was just called in a Giants game this year. See, say you are trying a field goal. It is quite unfair of me to use leverage by jumping up while pusing on a teamates shoulder to jump higher. The object is not to be a fucking flying Karamatzov Brother, it is to fairly jump and block that kick. Hence, leverage is unsportsmanlike conduct befitting a 15-yard march.
Now then, let me tackle (smirk) some of the things that I saw come up in this thread…
There is no rule that the punter can’t kick. There also isn’t a rule that the QB can’t play nose tackle. But when careers and lots of money can ride on a successful field goal, you want to have the BEST kicker, and that is generally someone who ONLY kicks and does not punt.
Conversely, you also want someone who is your best damn punter when punt you must.
As for why coaches don’t try really long field goals, the NFL a couple of years ago - in an effort to add excitment to the game when they felt too many teams were kicking FG’s and kickers legs were making it where you got three points for “driving” to the 40 yard line - changed the rule where when you miss a FG from beyond the 20, the other team gets the ball at the spot of the kick.
The spot of the kick is already seven yards behind the line of scrimmage. As a reault, if a kicker missed a 50 yard kick, the other team would take over from the 40 yard line.
Whereas if they punted the ball from the 33 yard line, the punter should be able to pin the opponent deep - inside the 10. Thus, a coach has to gamble if it’s worth a try for 3 points or do they want the punter to try and pooch it into the coffin corner.
Of course, the punter kicks it a little far and the ball is out of the end zone for a touchback and the other team starts at the 20. This is only a Net of 13 yards in my hypothetical above.
Little decisions such as this is why I am glad I am not an NFL coach!
Now, someone accurately said that you can still drop kick a ball through the uprights for a FG or EP. Yes.
Did you know that you can also still RETURN a missed FG? Another thing about trying a lengthy kick is that the team can put someone back who can field it like a regular kick and take off. I do believe that someone scored a touchdown this way last year - I think the Jets.
Now, the ball is live on a FG kick until the officials blow the whistle. This enables someone to return the short kick. It also allows for what I call the “Leon Lett” rule.
In a driving snowstorm, the Dolphins were painfully short on a last-second FG attempts a few years back. However, Leon Lett - a Cowboy who was playing special teams - ran down towards the ball and touched it. The minute he did that, it was anyone’s ball. Just as you can grab the ball and return it for a TD upon a miss, the ball is live once a person defending the kick touches it.
Leon slides into the ball, the Dolphins jump on it, they get the ball with enough time for another (this time much shorter) FG try which goes through and gives them the road victory at the buzzer!
There are lots of interesting rules in professional football. Here’s one more wacky one I remember seeing come up when I was a kid:
A Washington Redskin Wide Reciever was legally shoved out of bounds at the start of a play. He came back in bounds, caught the ball and ran it in for a TD.
Now, the rules state that someone who was out of bounds is removed from the play. They cannot touch the ball. If they do on a pass play, it is illegal.
However, this reciever caught the ball after the defender tipped it. Once the ball is touched by someone else besides him - I believe on either team is fine - then he CAN get back into the play. As such, it was a perfectly legal TD because the defender touched it first.
Oh, one more: There was a lot of discussion after the Steelers’ “Immaculate Reception” that the play was not good. Back then, they had specific rules about who could tip a ball forst before it was legally caught; if I am a reciever, I could not tip the ball and have another guy on my team catch it unless a defensive player touched it first or in between.
Since then, however, the rule has been changed and anyone can tip the ball to anyone and have it still be a catch. Sure makes it easier on the officials!
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Not yet! This is great. And thanks one and all for your answers, clarifications and verifications.
As a Rams fan who did not see the game (only highlights) I was going to start a thread similar to this one. I wanted to know who placekicked for the Rams; but I figured it had to be the punter. But brad_d said no, it was a backup WR!
That’s nuts. Specialization is one thing, but I have a hard time believing that a guy can be a pro punter and never have had experience/training in placekicking. Not even in HS or college?!?
Was Matz’s attitude, “Hey let’s have some fun… who wants to kick off?”, or “Okay, we’re in trouble and [punter name] says that the last time he tried to placekicked the tee went farther than the ball… so who else we got?”
Why not? I’ll bet that Carl Lewis never ran a marathon before… But if the US marathoner went down in the Olympics, would Carl have been a good last-second replacement? I mean, they both involve running, right?
Sarcasm aside, it is possible the WR in question punted a little in HS or college even, levels of play where specialization is not as prevalent. And it is quite possible that a FG kicker never tried to punt or vise versa.
Besides, I wouldn’t WANT my FG kicker to punt - That might throw off his rhythm for when I need a game winning FG from him.
The coach actually took heat (as much heat as a coach in charge of a undefeated Super Bowl-champion team scoring billions of points can take, anyway) in the press conference on Monday, claiming it was “stupid of me” to not have someone there to back up the kicking chores.
Nutshell? Some coaches do have a depth chart for these positions, while others have better things to do with their time. It is a rare thing, and even at best, your replacement is going to probably suck at kicking or punting, relatively speaking.
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Place kickers can usually do a decent job at punting, but punters rarely manage to place kick with ANY success at all (without any practice, that is). Punting is all mechanics - consistent drop, leg-swing, and follow-through. Place kicking, on the other hand, is a closely coordinated effort of the center/long snapper, holder, and kicker. It’s a timing thing, involving two other players, and part of it for the kicker is having faith that the other two will deliver the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be.
Another good reason to not use your placekicker as your punter would be the increased likleyhood of injury. Placekickers score points and are frequently a team’s leading scorer. You don’t want your leading scorer trying to tackle Deion Sanders in punt coverage. Punters also get hit after the kick a lot more often than placekickers. This also may have something to do with guys like Mitch Berger and Todd Saurbrun(sp?) doing kickoffs as well as punting. There’s no good reason for your leading scorer to be making tackles and/or getting blocked. If your punter gets shaken up during the game, you might give up a few yards, but if your placekicker gets shaken up, you give up a few points.
One more weird rule: If your extra-point try is blocked, the defending team can return it all the way for a 1-point DEFENSIVE conversion, or a 2-point safety, depending on the league. My son’s HS team lost a game last year that way.
Some teams use the punter for kickoffs because he generally has a stronger leg, and accuracy isn’t as important. On most teams, the 2 kickers do seem to be each other’s backups, though: They have a lot of time to spend at practice, they don’t take part in most of the drills or other squad activities, the coaches don’t know how to coach them, so they go off alone together to some far corner to practice. That gives them time to practice each other’s specialties just for kicks (haw, haw). I think that also helps explain why you often see the punter hold the ball for FG and extra point attempts - he’s simply more used to it. Some teams use a backup quarterback because he has good hands, and is more likely to be able to salvage the play if the kick attempt goes awry (and is more likely to make a fake attempt work).
The offensive team gets a single point either after a failed field goal attempt or punt kick where the defensive player can’t get out of the end zone or the ball crosses the line at the back of the end zone. Which gives way to some ludicrous plays at the end of a game when the score is tied and the game can be won by that single point BECAUSE the player in the end zone can kick the ball back towards the playing field itself, after which there is a mad scramble to get your hands on the pigskin. IIRC (I don’t follow football much anymore and they may have changed the rules), at that point, it’s anybody’s ball.
As far as quick kicks are concerned, I think the “element of surprise” would have a part to play as a strategy given that no player of the opposing team is positioned to receive and that the ball can travel a longer distance, pushing the opposing team further into their own territory. I must say I haven’t seen the play executed too often, and executed well, even less so.
Yes, the CFL has a wider field. By five yards, I think. (Anybody know for sure?)
And the CFL goalposts are positioned in such a way that they are above the goal line instead of at the rear of the end zone. This means that their supports are in the end zone, which makes for some interesting plays–players have to be careful, or they will run into the goalposts.
Another great CFL feature: there is no “fair catch” rule. There has to be an attempt to run the ball back, no matter how many defenders are bearing down on the receiver. I like NFL football, but it’s a little disappointing at times to see the receiver give up so easily by calling for a fair catch.
Although this has mostly been addressed, I’m all for beating a dead horse when I can. One notabale recent example of a placekicker/punter is Craig Hentrich, now with the Titans but formerly with the Packers. During their recent Suberbowl years, the Packers would often switch placekickers depending on the distance of the kick. Chris Jacke was their full time placekicker, but he didn’t have as strong a leg as Hentrich, so Hentrich was often used for kickoffs and long field goals.
In Rugby, there are usually a couple of players on each team of 15 who can punt, kick and drop goals.
The only big change is that you are allowed to place the ball before kicking (although on a windy day, a team-mate can hold the ball).
Satan, there’s no way this is as big a difference as that between 100 metre sprinting / marathon running.
I’ve seen a South African international practising 50 yard drop kicks. Before the match he was scoring around 80-90%. In the last minute he did one under pressure (and beat my team ).
Is it my imagination or wasn’t there a time when the positioning of the goal posts was not standardized (i.e. some were on the goal line whereas others were set further back in the end zone - even way back in the end zone, but that might have been collegiate)? But one thing I’m sure I didn’t dream: the size of the end zone varied (sometimes considerably). How could that be? It most certainly had to have an impact at least as far as touchdowns were concerned (more/less room to manoeuver, more/less chances of stepping out of bounds). On the other hand, you could make the case that the same applies to the size of baseball fields…
I agree, **spoons[/]. They have it MUCH too easy. Bunch of sissies.
Man, a football thread and I didn’t get in on it until this late?? I kept reading through the thread and saying to myself, “okay, I can answer that, yep that too,” but you all beat me to it.
The only thing I can add is in regards to the Rams game last week. According to a short column in the Milwuakee Journal Sentinal, Martz didn’t want to use his punter to kick because he didn’t want him to get hurt. A prior punter (Mitch Berger?) had hurt himself taking over kicking duties and he didn’t want to see that happen again.
BTW, kicking and punting are very different skills, requiring much different approaches, methods, timing, and muscles. Place kicking being, IMO, much more difficult.
(Just so you all know, we’re talking about a situation in Canadian football.)
No, I think you’re right in one sense: the placement of the supports wasn’t standardized. Still isn’t, as far as I can tell. But the part of the posts themselves through which the ball has to go has (I think, anyway) always been right over the goal line.
That said, it’s easy to see where the confusion comes from. As you know, the CFL mostly uses Y-shaped posts, with the single support in the end zone. The support curves out to hold up the posts over the line. But at my Toronto high school, the posts were a simple H-shape, and their supports were, of necessity, on the goal line. At any rate, no matter where the supports are, I think they’ve always had the posts over the line. But I could be wrong.
They made do with the amount of land available? I don’t think the end zones at my high school, for example, were full-sized. If they were, players would have been all over the running track. But it was more important to have the full 110-yard field, so they made do with smaller end zones. I would imagine the same problem existed in many places.
As for the bigger stadiums, well, even the Original Six hockey arenas of the NHL had rinks of differing sizes, because they were built before the rules standardized a size. I wouldn’t be surprised if some older football stadiums (especially those in Canadian college football) find themselves in a similar situation.
IIRC, they switched from an “H” formation to a “Y” one, with the single supporting post some one or two yards inside the end zone to reduce injuries to the players when the play originated a couple of yards away from the goal line.
Heck, some teams use a first stringer QB to hold. Brad Johnson holds for the Washington Redskins, for the reasons you mention. (Fat lotta good it did them last year in the playoffs against Tampa Bay grumble grumble . . .)
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