At the end of regulation, once the clock has expired, when does the game end?
What I mean is - if a touchdown in scored on the final play (after the clock reads 00:00) does the scoring team get to attempt an extra point(s)?
Here’s what I think:
[li]Losing teams get to attempt extra point(s)[/li][li]Winning teams do not[/li][li]In Over-Time, no extra points are ever attempted[/li]
Am I right?
I think you only need a slight modification: Extra points are only attempted if they can change the outcome of the game.
In pro ball, overtime is sudden death and extra points are irrelevant. In college, overtime is a sequence of possesions and extra points are always attempted (unless they won’t change the outcome). Otherwise, you’re both correct.
-Beeblebrox
“If there’s anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.”
Why the NFL can’t just put its full rulebook online I don’t know. The Digest that they do make available is only a cursory summary, leaving out a lot. If there’s specific mention of the OP’s instance in there, I couldn’t find it in a quick search.
One of the tiebreaking comparisons when determining playoff spots is net points (in various subsets of games). Since this is the case, it seems that the extra point should be allowed during regular season games regardless: while it may have no bearing on the current game’s outcome, it could (in principle) affect a playoff spot at the end of the season. However, that’s my own thinking, which is rather unimportant to the NFL. What do you guys think (or know) about this?
Personally, I’m not a fan of using net points as tie-breakers. IMO, once a game is won, lost, or tied the actual score should become irrelevant for any official purposes. To do otherwise encourages running up scores and such. Others may disagree, and that’s fine - it’s a minor philosophical point.
A team scoring a touchdown is always entitled to a try. It is generally not taken if unnecessary, but the officials would probably have to allow it if the winning coach insisted. One reason that it is usually not taken is that a touchdown is only attempted if the team is losing. If they score and take the lead, the margin is likely to be close. If they fail the try and the other team is able to recover the ball before it is dead, they can score two points if they can get it back to the other goal line. Many times, this point difference could decide the game. Why try and risk giving up two points if you’ve already won?
Not only does the NFL not put its full rulebook online, they don’t even sell it to the general public. I think it is only distributed to the media and to the teams. I’m not sure why this is so. The NCAA makes its complete rulebook available over the web, including the book of interpretations and the official scorekeeping manual.
The defense can only score on an extra point in college football. So you are only required to attempt it after a touchdown when time has expired if the scoring team is ahead by 1-2 points. If the lead is 3 or more, they just skip it.
I have seen situations where teams just come out and take a knee on the extra point attempt.
Maybe the reason the NFL doesn’t make the rulebook available is that they change it so often. Just think of how many incarnations of intentional grounding (Not near the reciever, wait…he’s in the grasp, oh but he’s outside the tackles…wait)and the instant replay rule there have been. They make minor changes in the thing seemingly everyday.
-Beeblebrox
“I’m a pretty dangerous dude when I’m cornered.”
“Yeah, you go to pieces so fast people get hit by the shrapnel.”
OK - OP checking back in.
I asked the question because it came up in a discussion I was having with friends via email.
This issue came to a head in a Buffalo/New England game back in 1998. It seems that a last-second Hail Mary by the Pats failed and the victorious Bills ran off the field. But, then, one of the Refs made a controversial Interference call in the End Zone and the Patriots scored on the ensuing play. They then walked the PAT across the goal line for a victory.
The point is that, in this game, the Patriots were given the PAT, after time ran out, while the opposing team was in the locker room!
Check it out (source):
I just wanted to know the Straight Dope and, by the way, I don’t think we’ve gotten it yet. Can anyone find a copy of the complete rules?
Actually the Official NFL Rule Book is available and I own one. (Nothing like being able to pull that out of my back pocket at the bar in the fall!) It is surprisingly brief, 100 pages or so.
BTW try’s (tries?) in the NFL can not be returned by the defensive team for points, but may be done so in college rules.
Ooh, that must be a rare bootleg version of the NFL Rule Book.
Was it purchased new or used?
I found a small online bookseller that will sell the offical NFL Rulebook for just under $10.00 here.
Actually, amazon.com sells the “Official Rules of the NFL 2000-2001” for $8.95. They also sell what appears to be a collection of clarifications and approved rulings.
Bob, is it possible that what you’re referring to is the off-field rules governing stuff like trades, free agency, the salary cap and other arcana? I seem to recall a thread recently that lamented the unavailability of MLB’s version of that stuff.
Last year on the Chicago Tribune’s website, they had a “Ask the NFL official” column and the referee who answered the question said that the NFL didn’t sell its rule book to the general public.
I saw the Amazon listing and I believe that is the rule book. The book of clarifications and examples is probably not the official book of accepted rulings. I think the NFL probably keeps that under wraps. That would be things like "Call holding if you see … "
“Call pass interference when …”
I think all the major sports probably keep their off-field rules closely guarded and it makes some sense since not all personnel matters need to be known, just like with any company.
My brother-in-law is a part-time sportscaster. I’ll see if he knows anything about either the OP’s question or the distribution of rulebooks.
Well, don’t know if you’re interested in CFL rules, but up here, there would be an opportunity for a convert.
The CFL Rulebook provides, in RULE 1, Section 7, Article 3: Time Out provides:
So the team making a touchdown on the last play of the game would be entitled to try for a convert. Would they do so? Well, if they were losing or tied, even after the touchdown, I think they would, but I doubt if they would do so if they were winning, since the defending team could score on a failed convert: RULE 3,SECTION 2,Article 5: Convert
So, if they were winning after the touchdown, I would expect they would take a knee rather than risk the other team scoring.
With respect to the example of the Pats/Bills game, I’ve always heard that the game can’t end on a foul, but wasn’t able to find it in the CFL rules.
To be precise, the game cannot end a penalty by the defense. If the offense makes a penalty on the last play, the game is over in nearly all circumstances (there are some variances between the NFL and NCAA on this.)
It used to be that a period wouldn’t end on an offensive penalty, but then teams realized that they could line up incorrectly, or have nobody set, or something like that and get extra time on the clock.
In the NFL if you’re out of timeouts and there are fewer than 10 seconds (not sure of this) and the offense commits a penalty, the game is over.