We’ll probably not hear from Wildest Bill again. He’s another hit and run evangelist type. Like Im_A_Squirrel in the thread; Saying No to God.
He probably thinks he’s won the “arguement” by getting us to “think” about Xianity. In reality, he’s only confirmed in my mind, and others, I’m sure, that his type of Xian is simply a zombie who can mindlessly spew biblical quotations and dogma and consider it “debating.”
Which is what I would say he was saying. The kingdom of God exists even now – I have seen it with my own eyes, and I might presume it has existed continuously since Jesus founded it. Not much past the mustard seed stage mind you.
I’m not a Christian anymore, so my Bible knowledge is a little fuzzy. I don’t know where you get equating the coming of the kingdom with the end of the world (outside of some old Ziggy cartoons – but then wasn’t he Buddha in disguise??)
All Bibles I have seen translate the word as generation, but a few have a footnote that it could also be translated as “race” which could mean the race of the Jews or the “race” of people who follow Christ.
Good point. I’ll admit this verse, and this verse alone, doesn’t seem to add up.
Again, where is this “end of the world” stuff?
First thing I thought of when I read the OP was “Ragnorak” as well. Great minds think alike!
So everyone repent before Loki escapes from the cave where he has been held captive and the snake that has been dripping venom on him watches him leave! (That’s basically all I remember about the beginning of it.)
Also, sorry to be picky, but I’m real into Roman history: someone earlier mentioned Pyrrhic victories, but then said not to mix up myths. Pyrrhus was a Greek king in the early 200’s (around 280 something I believe) B.C.E. that decided to invade Italy. He won two battles but at a proverbially high cost, hence the phrase. Again, sorry to be picky.
Question for Wildest Bill: how old are you?
Thinking he might be an evangelical teen or something, having not heard of Odin. That and the occasional run-on sentence.
[/hijacks]
jmullaney, I think we’re going to just have to agree to disagree on the probable meaning of Jesus’ term “the kingdom of heaven”, and what it meant for it to be “at hand”. If you’re interested, there was a book, Jesus: A Historian Looks at the Gospels by Michael Grant I believe it was, which you might want to check out. Not that I totally bought every word he said or anything, but it was an interesting look at the subject.
“Vikings vs Giants”
LMAO.
I don’t follow football, but does the Minnesota coach have one eye? Anyone get a close look at him? If we’ve got a one-eyed wandering coach who takes the Vikings to the Superbowl…I’m gonna hid under the bed.
I would cite lastly in my defense Luke 17:20-21:
If you following the root of that link you can search for the kingdom of God and find it 51 times and they mostly seem along a similar line. Kingdom of heaven another 32 times.
stuffinb said:
Think about it. If you were the Antichrist, would you go around announcing it? Would you even consider yourself to even be the Antichrist? No, the Antichrist will appear to be the most peaceful, loving, uniting person that this world has ever seen. He will be very persuasive.
For those of you so sure you wouldn’t take the mark…I’m sure every one of us feels we wouldn’t have followed Hitler either. But he persuaded thousands of average, ordinary people just like us to follow him just a few decades ago. To me, he was like a warning to all of us. Germany in the 30s is a small picture of what the whole world will be like under the Antichrist. A charismatic leader that everyone swoons over, but inside is a trecherous snake.
Are you refering to Jimmy Swaggart? Or Billy Graham? Or maybe Pat Robertson? If you have any thoughts about who you believe the “Anti-Christ” to be, please clue us in.
Or is this another case of someone pretending to have inside knowledge, but when queried says nothing specific?
My brother has twin boys, two years old.
Their mom says they are the antichrists.
Some days it is just soooooooo hard being Unitarian… {sigh}
Esprix
Well, you haven’t ran me off quite yet ;). Although, I think I might of bit off more than I can chew with y’alls intellect, grammer and debating skills. No my intention was never to win a debate. My intention was sorta of what you said Freyr just to make you think about it. What if your wrong about your not believing in God and end it up going to a place of torment. Is all your knowledge, grammer and debating skills going to help you there? Another thing your missing out on is the happiness that knowing the Lord can bring? And before you say I am happy are you truly happy? Do you have true peace?
I wish I have more concrete proof to give y’all on the existence of God and the terrible things to come but I only have what I know which seems not to be enough for some of you. So I thought why not at least give you a thought in the back of your mind about the mark that might resurface before agreeing to take it. So that maybe you can make the right decision at the most crucial time in your whole life on earth that will effect you for the rest of eternity.
Now that is all I was going to say you can go back to criticizing my grammer and my knowledge if you wish or you can think about the reality of the things to come. Jesus does love you ya know.
FriendofGod:
Not really. For instance: I don’t speak German. Not even enough to get arrested. But you’re just gonna hafta have faith that if The End Times come rollin’ along, then you’ll see me in line with you. I’ll be the tallish one, no hat, wearing sunglasses.
Waste
Flick Lives!
Wildest Bill, your last post was the most insulting of all. You want people on the SDMB to think? I would venture to say that most who have participated in this and other religious debates on this board have clearly demonstrated that they have not only thought a lot more about these issues than you have, but they are also far better read on the subject.
IMHO, you need to take that log out of your own eye and spend some time educating yourself about what you believe instead of spouting off like a parrot fresh from a revival.
Well, I have thirty or forty different sects all saying that if I don’t follow them, I’ll end up in a place of torment. So it’s not much of a threat; even if I do decide upon a religion to join and a God to worship, I still have a 29 out of 30 chance of going to Hell for choosing the wrong God.
I’m happy, but I don’t have “true peace”. However, I didn’t have “true peace” back when I was a Catholic and considering joining the seminary.
Understood, and it’s appreciated that you realize that some of us can’t accept others’ personal experiences as necessary proof that a specific version of God exists.
Unfortunately, so many others have predicted “such-and-such is an exact correlation to so-and-so in Revelations!” that it’s practically background noise for most. Even should the Antichrist come with bells on his feet and 666 tattooed on his forehead, we’ve had so much 'around-the-corner’ism from Hal Lindsey, Billy Graham, the Weekly World News, the Seventh Day Adventists, and so on, that I doubt I’d notice.
Originally posted by John Corrado *
I’ll agree life and its choices are confusing. While I was brought up in a Christian home I always assumed God was real. When I got older I went through some pretty dark depressions which I really didn’t care much about life anymore and I started questioning the reality of God. I mean with all the choices of religion how did I know that the Christian one was the right one. But after reading the Bible it sure does seem like the Bible has the most convincing story especially because of the Jews. I mean these people are so blessed look at the talent in Hollywood. But they have also been persecuted by many. Which makes me think the Devil is real and is trying to kill off God’s chosen people using any means including Hitler at his disposal. So I decided to try my best to live the Christian life because it made the most sense to me and if you live it you have less problems in your life than other faiths. And when I am in God’s will I really do have a true peace.
I don’t care much for organized religion either. Just curious did you ever accept the Lord as your savior?
I know what you mean. This is a shame. The devil has done such a good job desensitizing us in so many ways especially religion. It is going to be hard to pick out who is the antichrist and the rest of the devils plans.
And what if you are wrong about Allah? Tell you what, if you don’t tell me how much happier I’ll be with Christ, I won’t preach to you about Mohammad. That work for you?
Cute. If I say yes, you’ll simply call me a liar. If I say no, it’s because I don’t love your god in your way. Where’s Joe Heller when you need him?
Yes, sparky, I am happy. Ecstatically happy. I have a good home, loving friends and family, two devoted dogs, a great job that I love. I am blessed with a desire to seek, to learn, and to love. Allah is great indeed!
No, you only have what you’ve been taught. You parrot what men have told you, and men are wrong. You only “know” your way is correct because that hubris is reinforced by the other people you deal with in your insular world. Please, find your answers from God, not from other people.
As John just mentioned, people have been predicting the “end times” for millenia. And however much you may protest that you are the only one who is right, you are just like all the others before you. And when the “rapture” doesn’t come, in time you and your beliefs will be one with Ninevah and Tyre.
Life’s far too short for that. IMHO, you should be spending your time loving, not in threats or fear.
May you rest in the sheltering hand of the almighty Allah.
Well, that’s mighty white of you. :rolleyes:
“No, really, some of my best friends are Jews!”
So if the Jews are God’s chosen people, why are you Christian?
One more time, Sparky. You don’t know anything about other faiths!! How could you possibly know you have fewer problems as a Christian than as a Hindu, Moslem, Taoist?
Arrogance is one thing. Willfully blind arrogance is repulsive.
Oh, what the hell. I’m going to get my “666” tattoo done this weekend. Why not avoid the rush? While I’m at it, I may as well get that UPC code put on my butt and the identity chip put in my brain. That way I can throw out my scanable DL, social security card, ATM card, credit cards, and all the other identifiers one is required to possess in order to live and work in the US. It’ll simplify my life, and I can stop lugging that pesky wallet around.
I’d like to tie these two paragraphs together with my answer.
I haven’t accepted the Lord as my savior. I have accepted Jesus Christ as the person I’d most like to be like. It’s a strange dichotomy- I fully support, agree with, and try to work towards Jesus’ teachings on morality (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; turn the other cheek; etc.). I do not believe in Jesus’ divinity, or that he was the Son of God, or that he died to save us from our sin.
So in the sense of ‘savior of society’, I believe that if society truly followed Christian principles, we’d all be better off (side note: those who seem bent on ensuring that our government creates and enforces “Christian” laws seem the least truly Christian of all)- however, in the sense of ‘savior of souls’, I can’t agree. There’s too much fluff and static out there, and- this is probably most important to me- just because I want something to be true about God doesn’t make it so. I see worship as a force of conviction rather than desire; I don’t see the point in worshipping a God in the hopes that such a God exists. In fact, were that the case, I might as well not worship, because the God I wish exists doesn’t care if you worship him, some other deity, or don’t worship at all.
Without the conviction that “this is what God is, and this is what He has done and will do”, any worship on my part is empty and meaningless.
Question for you, eschatology-wise. Does being able to pick out the antiChrist actually matter? It’s writ in Revelations, so one would assume it has to happen, no matter what man tries to do about it. Christ also said that we wouldn’t know the day or the hour, so it’s heavily masked. My assumption regarding the mark and the antiChrist and all of that is that by the time it gets to the point of the mark, the system itself will have become so depraved that good Christians will already have opted out of it, and the refusal of the mark is less “Hey! That’s the Anti-Christ! And I’ll bet that that’s his mark!” than it will be “To take part in this program would mean a complete abandonment of my beliefs, and therefore I will abstain.”
So anti-Christ and Rapture watching, while amusing and an interesting pastime, is in the end fruitless; the question comes not of “Will you recognize the Anti-Christ?” but of “Will you abandon your beliefs under peer and government pressure?”
Oh- check out this site for an up-to-date monitor of the Rapture Index. There’s been a good drop off since '99, but it’s still up there.
OK, I picked a “you poor deluded heathens” thread more or less at random for this post. It is directed to the evangelistic Christians, though. (You heathens can just talk among yourselves for a moment, if you don’t mind. Thanks.)
This whole bewildered “Gee, how can you deny the Lord of Creation? He is The Lord!” arguments are just crap. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to remember the life of the Lord. When he was there giving out the message that we should love Him, it was not just that we should love someone we KNEW was the spirit of God. Jesus was a poorly dressed itinerant teacher, traveling around with a gang of disreputable ne’er do well vagabonds. His message was more like this:
Some unidentified bunch of roadies on bikes, and old jalopies pulls into your town. They don’t work, they don’t have any reasonable description of what they are doing here, and they mostly talk about stuff that is outrageously challenging to your social structure. The lead Weirdo tells you, in passing, that if you cannot love him in the depths of your heart, you will die forever, and be lost. He tells you that loving Him is your only chance.
See?
He was not obviously the Lord of the Heavens, to the Jews. He was pretty much obviously a petty criminal, with a bunch of deluded fanatics for friends. But the message is still true, and it remains true if the Lead Weirdo is the Son of God, or just another lost soul wandering the earth. If you can’t love him, from the depths of your heart, you will die forever, and be lost. Loving Him is your only chance. Not joining the right church, or picking the right mythos to study, or tithing the proper amount of your worldly wealth to the right Televanelist.
So, if you want to witness to those who don’t believe in the bible, you do it by loving them. You don’t tell them they are going to hell for being sinners, because you don’t know that. You only know that you personally are going to follow Jesus into heaven. You won’t be checking tickets at the gate. And you don’t pretend it is because of what you know, or what you have done. It is because God Loves You.
OK, sorry, rant over.
Tris