If you want to feel bad for the guy’s kids, fine, but I don’t want to be scolded for not feeling bad for them. I think other characters in this story were suffering a whole lot more. The plight of children who have to deal with elder care is a valid one, I agree. I’m sure these people were dealing with a lot of stuff. That does NOT give them the right to reorder this man’s life without regard for his feelings or dignity, not to even mention what the cat is dealing with.
Yes, the cat is dealing with something too. I know people will scoff at this, the idea that the cat’s feelings should be considered, but I have 5 cats, and they do have feelings. You can’t tell me cats don’t get upset when the are suddenly taken from their home of 17 years and probably the only person who cared for them and loved them, put in a strange, scary place with other cats, without anyone or anything familiar.
If this is what had to be, then it had to be, but it was handled in a way that was inconsiderate. Also, aside from the blame game here, I just feel very bad for the old man and the cat, and to me the least traumatized folks in the situation are the kids.
Thank you Rubystreak, I did read the thread and I can’t find anywhere it is stated that he was told his cat was gone. In fact in your OP you said that the “old man came home from the hospital to find that his cat was given away”. Found, not told. Also from the OP, “WITHOUT TELLING HIM”.
No, he did not come in “on his own”. You said he came in with a nurse / caregiver. He could have come home, found the cat gone and asked for the caregiver’s help in tracking it down without any assistance from the children. Or was it the children themselves who did own up to their actions. If so, when? While he was still in hospital? Only after they had to because Gramps says ‘Hey, where’s my cat?’? See how each situation is different?
Also, just as the children’s actions should not automatically make them horrid little demonspawn, neither should ‘old man + stroke + lost cat’ automatically confer sainthood. Maybe he was a horrible father, the kids hate him and couldn’t care less about him or his cat as a result. You could equally infer that from their actions.
So all I can really say is that it sounds like a really shitty situation. I do unreservedly have sympathy for the cat and do not scoff at the idea that it too is dealing with something. One of my own cats shows demonstrable signs of agitation if I’ve been away even overnight.
Oh well, if all you want to do is vent, I’ll take my rationality away and let you fling poo unimpeded.
Now I know that this will automatically make me a pariah on this board, because I would bet green money that there are more cats owned by the Doper collective than there are actual Doper members (I’m WAG’ing about 1.35 cats per member on average for Christ sakes), but sincerely, when it comes to shit like this…
Fuck a cat.
If there is any, ANY outrage to be had here, it sure as shit isn’t for a cat. It isn’t like they tied him to a tree and beat him like a fucking piñata or anything. The outrage (if any–and I’m not really feeling it here either, BTW) is for the man placed in a home shortly after a stroke. But why is it that there are precious few cries for this man? How come the cacophony of wails is directed almost entirely in the direction of the well-being of a cat? with all the shit we got going down on this hotball, with all the atrocities, you find yourselves getting worked up over a feline? And I realize that some of you are referring to the cat only in as much as he was a friend that was cruely removed from the presence of the man who loved him, but I cannot help but sense it (as it usually is here) is more about the cat than the man himself. Hopefully I am misreading. But sometimes, when I read shit like this, I feel like Heston, waking up on the beach and seeing the chimp on top of the pony.
Here’s what really worries me: I suspect (and I hope I am fucking more incorrect than Jessica Simpson’s eraser scorched trig final) that if most of you had a choice between killing ten cats or one human being, you’d spare a ten pack of felines and pull the plug on the human faster than the bitch slap of a humming bird. And if this is the case, then I am sorry to say that your collective realities are more splintered than a jammed door at Chuck Norris’s house.
I understand that cats provide a great service to mankind, and so do dogs for that matter (although it pisses me off to no end to see him dragging his ass around on the carpet–I should have never let him see me do that), and I know that I cannot possibly put into words what anyone’s pet really means to them, but seriously…
When we’re talking about a man being placed in a home after having a stroke, which is a sad and disconcerting goat fuck rodeo that no one should have to endure, and the collective members of this board zero in on a cat’s comfort level quicker than the life span of a boy band because he was taken to an animal shelter…
You’re right, maybe they never did tell him and he had to call the SPCA on his own. That’s certainly possible. I’ll have to ask about that. If so, the children are even worse than I’ve painted them. I assumed they told him when he got home and found the cat not there.
He came in under his own volition, not with his kids, was the impression I’d gotten about this. He was the motivating force for the trip to the SPCA and the paying of the cat’s fees. I’m not sure when the old man found out the cat was gone. Does it matter? Either way, he didn’t get to say goodbye and had to haul his stroke-ridden self into the shelter to say goodbye. Have you a theory wherein they behaved with consideration and courtesy? If so, please posit it.
Maybe he was a terrible father. I suppose that is possible, though where I said or inferred he was a saint, I don’t know. I assumed that having a stroke + being put in a nursing home + losing your cat behind your back = someone for whom I am inclined to have sympathy. Maybe he was a horrible dickhead. I have no way of knowing that. It does speak well of him that he got to the shelter, paid the fee for Moses, and said good bye. He obviously cared about his cat, who is in great health and good humor at the ripe old age of 17, which also makes me think well of him.
This is the Pit. I am under no obligation to be rational. I concede some of your points but not all. My sympathy is with Gramps and Moses until I have a reason to think otherwise… and no way is Moses going to lose my sympathy, regardless. He is getting shafted.
I like to stick to my own species, but far be it for me to tell YOU what to do.
Bullshit. I have more than enough outrage for both the cat and the old man, if he warrants it. The only verifiable innocent in this situation is the cat, though, so he had my unreserved sympathy. As VegemiteMoose pointed out, the old man might be a bigtime royal cocksucker whose kids have been waiting for him to become incapacitated so that, like Goneril and Regan, they could systematically fuck him over and make his life hell. I can’t possibly know that without knowing the principles involved. I do know the cat, though, and he is sweet and without blame in this situation.
Straw man, a contrived cry of dissent from someone looking for a fight here. Plenty of people in this thread have expressed dismay on behalf of the old man.
Yep. Yes. 100% true. I get worked up over cats. Being that the cat is the only party to this incident that I have met personally and whose character I can speak to, he does not deserve to suffer in this situation. However, he certainly could have met worse fates and is not currently in physical pain or discomfort. I can’t say the same for the old man. I feel terrible for him. He must be quite miserable, and all things being equal, I am willing to go ahead and sympathize with him b/c he came in with his caregiver to pay the adoption fee and say goodbye. With the info I have, that’s enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt, assume he was an OK guy, and be on his side in this. This in no way negates my feelings about the cat.
Also, people posting on this board really can’t DO anything for the old man. He is out of our hands. The cat, however, can be helped, so people are wishing here that they could. This is the part of the crappy situation where strangers COULD get involved and make things a little more right, which would probably be a relief to the old man. You’re focused on this idea that people are talking about the cat b/c they care more about him, but I don’t think that’s fair. I think the cat’s situation is still in play and people are speculating about how to intervene for everyone’s betterment. You choose to see it as people not giving a shit about the old man. Not so.
Dennis Miller? Is that you? Who else can torture a metaphor with more aplomb?
Your assumptions here are absurd. Of course it would depend on which cat and which human.
No, you can’t, so don’t try. I’m sure that cat provided more cumulative hours of comfort and companionship in 17 years than they guy’s kids did.
Again, I have to decline. I think the SPCA probably wouldn’t approve either.
Nice catch. Admittedly, I confess a weakness for the man’s work.
Straw man? Hardly. This isn’t the first thread on this board where the well-being of an animal is of more importance than a human in a similar situation.
I used to love him but now I think he’s a deluded toolbag.
Maybe this has been true on other threads, but I think this thread has been pretty even handed in giving sympathy to the old man. I don’t think ANYONE has remotely said the cat was more important than the old man here. Some posters have cast doubt about the old man’s character to warrant such treatment from his children, but that wasn’t me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
I think people have talked more about the cat b/c the cat can be helped and given a happy ending to his story. We can’t do anything for the old man, though I will ask about where he is and if I could bring the cat to visit him. The shelter folks might not be down with that, though, so I don’t know if it’ll happen. I think it’s a shitty situation all around and that the cat is the only party who I can do anything for.
As for people liking their cats better than other humans, that’s probably fodder for another Pit thread too. I’m not sure I want to get into that here. I have… complicated feelings on the subject. I will say, though, that “Fuck the cat” is an entirely unwarranted comment here. Why fuck the cat? He did nothing wrong, and no one is saying it’s either a person or the cat. I’m sure most if not all of us feel quite sorry for both of them. I know I do.
Right, we’re talking about a man having a stroke, and having to go live in a home, and to add insult to injury, his family just gets rid of his cat without letting him say goodbye. :rolleyes:
A seventeen year old cat would be traumatized. Taking our sixteen year-old cat to the vet was enough to get her hyperventilating.
Look, this man obviously loved this cat dearly, it was his only companion, and it must really suck to just be told, “Oh, we took Moses to the shelter-he’s just some stupid cat!” Not even for Moses’s comfort, but for his owner’s. I’d bet he’d recover and be a lot happier had he known that his cat was taken care of.
As for caring more about cats than people, well, let’s just say most cats I meet aren’t assholes. Can’t say the same about most people.
I’m a firm believer in the idea that people who mistreat animals are likely to mistreat humans as well. His kids probably showed about as much respect and regard for his wishes in choosing a home for him as they did in getting rid of his cat.
That said, any chance I get to speak out against people who think of pets as disposable, I’m going to do it. That attitude makes me so mad.
Well it’s a good thing I never said that cats were disposable, right?
You ever seen a cat with a mouse? Luckily you aren’t six inches tall. you might find that cats are the assholes of the world. Perspective is everything.
Keep in mind that I love all animals. I just don’t put them before human life, assholes or not. But thanks for making my point anyway.
Yes, you do. You have a dog. You could be sending the money you’re spending on that dog to your local food bank, or some organization that vaccinates Third World children. Those things would probably save human lives. I do the same thing- I have two cats.
We invested a few minutes to express our outrage toward people treating a cat badly. I suppose we could only express outrage for bad things that happen to people, but what good would that do, really? Bad things will still happen, outrage or no.
It’s quite possible that the kids are big ol’ meanies who want to inflict a world of pain of gramps. It’s far more likely that they did what they thought was best given a large set of circumstances you know nothing about. Don’t forget that they, too, are going through a very rough time, and their chief concern is likely to make gramps’ life as painless as possible. Will they make some poor decisions in doing so? Sure. Was this one of them? It might look like it from our point of view, but the fact is we don’t know the circumstances at all.
Is there no circumstance at all that you can imagine in which the kids thought that their actions might be the best path? Not even one?
I’ve been told by my family that, if anything happens to me, my cat Beru will have to be put down, because she’s very possessive and territorial about me, and hates ALL other human beings. She also doesn’t get along well with other cats. She’s not afraid of dogs, though. She’s had the resident pit bull scared shitless (back when circumstances forced me to move in with a relative who had one).
So, yeah. If I die before she does, she’s apparently being buried with me.
Since you are on speaking terms with your cats, perhaps you could ask them to give you a life, you know since they have nine and you obviously have none.
Do you know they had the time to do that? Honestly, what do you really know about this situation? I see a lot of assumptions, and a few sketchy facts. Nothing you have said beyond “Kids father had a stroke - kids came in from out of town and took cat to shelter. Dad finds out when he gets home (maybe) that cat is gone. Dad comes to shelter, pays adoption fees.” If something else in your story is FACT, please let me know. I’m under the impression that most of what you have stated is supposition.
Am I completely off base in assuming the kids live out of town? That’s what I’ve gotten from your story. If so, how might they put an ad in the paper while worrying about Dad’s house, any vehicles he may have, any medical problems, insurance questions, DAD’S long-term living situation and arranging for their lives to be put on hold while they sort all of this out?
If my mother had a stroke six years ago, when my brother and I both lived out of town, and she had a pet - ANY pet - it would have been our very last concern. I was living across the country, he lives in another state. Neither of us would be able to afford to take care of, or have the time necessary to take care of, a person who required 24 hour care. We would have been forced to have our mom go to an assisted living facility and her pet would have to go. Neither of us would have been able to afford a pet sitter at that time. How much time do you think that people in that situation have to spend looking for suitable pet owners? Isn’t that what your agency does?? Your shelter is a no-kill shelter, right? Well then…I guess it wasn’t the worst choice after all.
I didn’t say that. It was just another scenario thrown out there. You’ve thrown out plenty of scenarios that paint the kids in a bad light based on one thing, and one thing only - their treatment of a cat and possibly of their father. You don’t even know what the details are concerning the father finding out about his cat.
Ever heard of assuming facts not in evidence? I’m not advocating complete and total dismissal of consideration for the cat and especially not his owner but why does the cat outrank the man’s children in terms of sympathy? You don’t know what the hell they’re going through or how this family tragedy is affecting their lives. Maybe they weren’t thinking clearly, considering their father almost died. Maybe they couldn’t think of anything else to do with the cat, considering they have to suddenly make arrangements for their father. What’s more important - their father or the cat?
Wow, it’s like you were THERE! :rolleyes:
It must really suck to wake up and find out you’ve been in a hospital for a while and are now looking at spending the rest of your life in a nursing home. It must really suck to find out you will likely never regain muscle control, speech abilities and other bodily control functions that most of us hope we will always be able to take for granted.
My original point stands. We do not have enough details to tear these kids to shreds for not making better arrangements for a cat when we don’t even know what they had to do to make things ok for Dad.
One last thing:
:dubious: I think if something happened to one of my parents, grandparents, great-grandmother, or one of my kids, I would be a lot more traumatized than the cat. I’m sorry, I find this argument to be silly.
I never said it was the worst choice. In fact, I have said numerous times that it could be worse for the cat. I still disagree that the children handled it the best way they could. I would never, ever do that to my father. Ever. You would do that to your mother. That’s you. If you’re cool with that, it’s none of my concern, but I wouldn’t do it. To me, that’s the bottom line here and I don’t think it’s worth arguing about anymore. You’re one kind of person and I’m another and very likely never the twain shall meet, philosophically.
I honestly don’t care what you think. I think the cat is pretty fucking traumatized and what’s silly is trying to compare the cat’s experience with his children’s. I think the kids have cerebrums that help them understand what’s going on and the cat doesn’t. Do with that what you will.
So you could argue then that the cat is indifferent, or (if it’s like any other cat I ever saw in action) couldn’t give a frog’s fat ass where the old man was. Maybe it couldn’t give a rat’s flaming sphincter about who all these new people are, “Just feed me already!” Why are you projecting emotion of that magitude into a cat. You know, those Disney films where the animals sing songs like Somewhere Out There? That shit isn’t grounded in reality, and neither are you.
You’re God Damned right about that. There is no comparison. You don’t honestly think that the cat is pacing the floor reciting the Lord’s Prayer for its master, do you?
Huh, I guess I just misunderstood what “anything would be better” meant.
You can disagree all you like, but it doesn’t make it true. If you don’t know what the situation was, you don’t know that they didn’t handle it the best way they could, period. You’re right, I would do that “to” my mother. I would put her needs, my needs, my family’s needs above the needs of a cat, no matter how much she or I or anyone else loved the cat.
The only kind of person I am, philosophically, is one who believes that we cannot judge people we don’t know under extreme circumstances when we don’t even have MOST of the facts, let alone all.
Well, I’m glad we got that cleared up. I’ve been wondering how much you cared all day. You posted on a message bored. I’m not obligated to think the way you think. You’re right, it’s absurd to try and compare the cat’s experience with his children’s, but not in the way you meant it.
I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that you think this is more difficult for the CAT than for his CHILDREN. Do with that what you will.
You’re assuming it was either the humans’ needs OR the cats. This is what you tell yourself in order to justify doing things in the way that is simply most expedient for you. I wouldn’t do that to my father. That’s the sum of the situation to me. I also wouldn’t do that to his cat, but that’s a secondary consideration because it’s inherent to not doing that to my father.
I volunteer at the fucking shelter, asshole. I’m going to offer to take the cat to the man in his home, though I don’t know if that will work. I’m doing what I can, so give that a fucking rest, OK?
I think it’s DIFFERENT. I feel more pity for the cat, who is elderly and has no idea what’s going on and has been completely wrenched out of the life he’s had for his entire existence. Again, a philosophical difference between us that I’m OK with.
