There, Admin Lynn suggested that discussion on this matter come here. There are still people talking about it there, but since someone continues to challenge me about my grandson versus my daugther’s ex-cat, I’m working under the assumption that some people in that thread don’t know where the Pit is, or else don’t give a damn what Lynn says. Anyway, here we are.
Having explained myself there — that we had already lost one infant grandson to brain cancer, and that my daughter had tried very hard to find a home for her beloved cat — I won’t spend a lot of time doing that here. Instead, I’ll just rant.
You know, if you really look at my post, you can see that I’m a cat person, and that I loved Sad and Deranged’s rescue of the old cat from the shelter. (It’s in the first sentence.) But Sad and Deranged had decided she needed to comment in her post about the ethical scruples of a family with a newborn: “His family was expecting a new baby, and instead of waiting until the baby arrived and see how the cats and the newborn got a long, they decided to give these two senior cats up three days before Christmas.”
Why some are free and some are not to talk about such things in MPSIMS is unclear, but this isn’t a complaint about moderation. It’s a complaint about a mindset that I truly do not comprehend. My daughter is evil for eliminating the chance that a fucking cat could hurt her newborn son? I honestly don’t know how to reason with people who think that way. Their premise seems to be that some minimal danger to the baby is acceptable since you can’t eliminate all danger anyway. It would then follow that if you’re going to get rid of the cat, you should, I don’t know, remove the ceiling too, lest a fixture fall on the baby’s head.
I’ve argued with god haters before who don’t know science from butt juice. I’ve argued with religious zealots who think Christ is the mascot of the Christian football team. I’ve argued with hand-wringing authoritarians who think they can plan my life better than I can. But I don’t know how to argue with a fucking half-witted troglodyte who thinks it’s okay to wait and see whether the cat claws, bites, smothers, or shits on a newborn infant before deciding whether — whether, mind you — to bite the bullet and mournfully say goodbye to a critter with a brain the size of a walnut on account of a stupid little shit baby who can’t manage to get along.
The simple fact that infants cry, make sudden movements, and are now the one source of attention seem to be pretty good reasons. I’ve had several friends get rid of cats because they’ve scratched and bitten their infants. This is NOT an unreasonable assumption. And given the choice of having a cat and possible injury to a child from it vs. no cat, I’d choose no cat any day.
I am an animal lover, one of those nutjobs who much prefers the company of his dogs to that of most humans. If for some reason I were unable to care for them, I would go to extreme measures to ensure their continued well-being, and frankly, I believe that I would wait and see if the cat posed a danger to the baby before giving it up. I guess. Since I will never be in that position, it is hard to say. However, I cannot fault Liberal’s daughter for what she did. People simply *abandon *cats all the time for with considerably less justification. She made every effort to re-home the cat. She was unsuccessful. She made a tough decision. Sometimes that has to be done.
Lib, I don’t wish to hijack the thread, but you referred to smoking (outside) as something your daughter and her husband were both doing. Was she smoking while pregnant?
I hope this isn’t aimed at Sad & Deranged. I don’t think she meant her comments as an attack on anyone, and it is terribly sad that someone decided to give up their animals at that stage in the animal’s life.
I have to be honest, from this section of your post “Neither she nor her husband smoke inside anymore.” sure implies that the mother is a smoker, and has been smoking throughout the pregancy. Else she quit smoking for 9 months then started right up again after the birth, which seems unlikely.
Not exactly the expected behavior of someone who puts the baby above “everything - including the mother herself” and who believes that “even a miniscule risk” is unacceptable.
Of course, the cat could have been a known aggressive cat, taking swipes at visitors, so it’s not so much a miniscule risk as it is a near certain risk.
She stopped smoking entirely during her pregnancy, Rilchiam, as did her husband. And beyond that, for the next several months, they would visit us only on the condition that no one smoke in the house. No one. Anywhere inside, despite the fact that our basement level (library, sewing room, and garage) can be completely shut off from the rest of the house and has its own HVAC. And even now, same same. No one smokes in our house on “baby day”.
And Dung Beetle, I’m glad you gave me the opportunity to stress again that I admire what Sad and Deranged did, and that this is a pitting of (1) people who kept harping on it in that thread, even after Lynn’s suggestion, and (2) people who value cats more than babies.
We used to be devoted to our cats. For 15 years we took them to the vet for teeth cleanings, fretted over their diet, fussed about their comfort, and concerned ourselves that they were “happy”. At one point we owned 5 cats, and when we moved cross-country, it took me 300 phone calls to find a new apartment that would enable us to keep them, but I did it.
Two of our cats have died of kidney failure - for the first one we went the subcutaneous fluid/special diet route, but then let him go when he was clearly in pain. I held him while the vet gave him the shot. The second one merited surgery, which cost us $2,000 (every single penny we had at the moment), and he died anyway.
Then we had twins.
I’m glad the particular cats we have now are 10 years old and my favorite one already died, because I have NO desire, time, energy or money to take care of them any longer. I just don’t, the kids took it all. And I’m glad to give it to them. My life goes kids, house (because otherwise everything will fall apart), husband, family, and self way at the bottom of the list. Ask a new mom how often she’s able to take a shower or simply finish a fricking bowel movement.
I used to think it was awful to give up pets because of a baby’s arrival.
Experience has taught me differently.
I’m sorry for the loss of your other grandchild, Liberal.
Have you removed the toilets and bathtubs from your house as well? Because they are a common cause of child drownings, and while there are many things you can do to make them safer, why would you even take the chance? Just remove them, you can’t be too careful when it comes to your grandchild.
I’m with the OP. And I have not the remotest desire to have kids, but damnit, how can your kids not be more important? Don’t dump the animal, try your damndest to find it a new home, but baby comes first.
It was emotionally devastating, of course. But much good has come from his brief visit with us. His mother now works at the hospital where he died. She is an inspiration to other mothers whose children she now cares for, and to us as well for her confidence and faith in his life making a difference in the world.
As I’d explained in the MPSIMS thread, we recently endured the death of our beloved cat, Jane, as well. (Tris, Poly, and Skulldigger have all met him.) When my wife discovered that Jane was a boy kitten, she (my wife) had already adjusted to “Jane”, and so the name stuck. He was a good ol’ feller. He used to sit by my feet while I worked. He was a bit cantankerous and spoiled, but I considered him a friend. He lived to almost fifteen.
We built a koi pond with a patio area in our back yard in honor of Dawson. And we established a serene area near where our woods path begins for Jane. He has a stone marker and a newly planted lily (I think).
Without having read the entirety of the linked thread –
Many, many, MANY people have babies and pets. The two are hardly mutually exclusive. Getting rid of the cats before they’ve even looked cockeyed at the baby smacks a bit of overprotectiveness. You know, that whole image of the overbearing, smothering mother who won’t let her precious darlings play outside because they might get a boo-boo.
To me it seems, if not extreme, at least unncessary. Really, what are the chances the cats would seriously injure or kill the child? A scratch is not a tragedy, and babies suffer worse than that when they start walking (and falling down).
I am also with you OP. I honestly don’t get the animal over humans people. If a parent has the least bit of worry that the pet would harm a child, out it goes.
Two weeks ago my mixed breed got out and bit a neighbor hard enough to injure him. Although the neighbor claimed that he was trying to catch it to put it back in the yard, that dog was gone within 24 hours. My children were very upset and were totally convinced that this mild mannered animal would never hurt another person and it was a fluke. I didn’t care and wanted to have it put down to spare another person from risking a bite. My son couldn’t stand this and was able to give the dog to a friend with some land.
True, these cats didn’t do anything but still, why worry? They are ANIMALS. The mother wanted to make sure her baby was safe. Seems like a no brainer.
I may not have twins, and with a new baby, I may not have as much time as I used to for my cats, but they certainly still mean the world to me. I still value cuddle time with them, my girl cat still sleeps with me at night (she snuggles right up to my stomach, where she used to love to sleep when I was pregnant), and both of them have accepted the baby as a part of the family. If it means I put off vacuuming for a half hour after I put the baby to bed so that I can have a cat sit in my lap for a few minutes, I put off vacuuming.
I can’t ever imagine not loving them anymore. I hope I’m not the exception. I certainly don’t put them above my child, but I will do EVERYTHING humanly possible to make sure that they are still happy and healthy and that they remain with us. My son’s already fascinated with them at four months old, and we will raise him to respect and love animals, just like we do.
Just wanted to point out that not all new parents feel this way.
I understand your position, but cat scratches can be extremely dangerous. Here’s some information from the Centers for Disease Control. Also, a cat need not intend harm or strike viciously. A mere tap of a cat claw on the eyeball is potentially destructive. Cat’s nails — especially old cats — are extremely sharp, sharp as a needle. And long. Very long. (And all this is setting aside controversies over sanitation, hygiene, and disease issues with cat feces and infants).
This thread is blowing my mind. We used to have two dogs. Then, after much effort, we brought home a baby boy in adoptive placement. Fast forward two months, when said baby boy is taken from us (long story, but the agency basically threw us to the wolves without our knowledge). We had just lost a child. I’m told we’ll feel happiness again someday, but I can’t imagine it right now, three months after losing him. Three weeks after losing the child, one of the dogs died. You know what I discovered? It hardly registered on the grief scale. Sure, I was sad about it, but comparitavely, I barely even cared.
I loved the dogs, and still love the remaining dog. I believe animals should be treated with dignity and respect, and I do so, as does Mr. Stuff. I would never take responsibility for an animal without believing that I could care for it until it died a natural death. But let me be clear about this: They aren’t people. In a choice between person and animal, person wins, every time. In a family that has already known the loss of a newborn, I can’t blame them for eliminating a possible risk.
And getting rid of bathtubs and toilets is a poor example. Bathtubs and toilets are necessary for hygiene. Cats, though you may love them, are not necessities. It’s like saying that parachuters have a lower risk of death, as a percentage, than those who drive cars. Cars are necessary for getting places. Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane for fun is not a necessity. It’s a risk that can be eliminated.