I appreciate your honesty as well. And you are free to say or think anything you want. I’m sure you realize I believe your views are reprehensible, but that’s my opinion, which I’m entitled to.
I could have reamed you out at length and shoved my queer politics down your throat, but I didn’t feel it necessary. I have neither the need nor the energy. Like I said, I don’t care what you think, just as much as you don’t care what I think. I spent far too long running and hiding, and frankly, enough is enough and I don’t care who approves of my being gay or not.
And BTW we’re not perverts, and science backs that up.
What? This is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance and noone’s even going to try to argue with Mr. Pkbites?
PK, why do you thing that homosexuals are reprehensible? Why do you think that same-gender sex puts you on the same level as a criminal? I’m genuinely interested, is there anything beyond personal prejudices here?
What rights are being infringed upon, exactly? There is no right to attend one’s prom/formal/whatever with a date of one’s own choosing. There isn’t even a right to attend a prom, not within the framework of the government, nor within the framework of the school.
It waters down the importance of the word “right” to extend it to mean “everything that anyone wants” regardless of the context.
Ummm…what exactly makes you think they are boinking. Plenty of 17 year olds date without boinking anyone. And 17 year olds are legally allowed to keep company with anyone they want- even gasp 21 year olds.
So, I’m ignorant because I find a particular activity to be reprehensible? Som people find smoking reprehensible and won’t hang around smokers. Some people find eating meat or driving a car reprehensible. Are they ignorant? People are allowed to dislike what and who they want, weather you approve or not.
I happen to find the act of a man putting another mans penis in his mouth, or having it rammed in his anus, very gross. And I don’t want to associate with people who do this kind of thing.
I’m allowed to pick and choose who I deal with.
Also, my particular religion finds this an abomination. Therefore, I’m not going to hang out with folks who openly offend my God.
Scoff at that if you want. I know of people who won’t eat certain foods because they believe their God forbids it, and some of them try not to associate with those who aren’t their own kind. Are you going to scoff at them and call them ignorant? Because I’d love to hear you attack Jews. C’mon! I dare ya!
Nice try. But since I think your example is full of crap, good attempt at trying to link your bigotry to Judiasm, but really, it won’t work.
I’ve never met or heard of or read about Jews (however Orthodox) who only to “associate with their own kind”. I’m sure there are a few extremely far out of the mainstream Jews, but their behavior has nothing to do with anything even in the ballpark of Jewish faith and it certainly has nothing to do with Kosher laws as you seem to be implying. My devoutly Kosher friends will eat with non-Kosher me (or any of their other friends), although it needs to be at their house (since my plates, etc. aren’t Kosher).
What I’m saying is, Christians and their beliefs are always under attack for their moral positions, yet many Jews hold the same morals but are never attacked for their beliefs. People are scared to death to attack Jews. If I did it here, I’d be kicked off, yet if Christian beliefs are attacked, called ridiculous, blasphemied, etc, nothing happens. Forget all that, anyway. My point is, I donot have to justify my repugnance towards homosexuals. Not to anyone. End of story!
Ever read anything by our resident brown-shirt Sweet Willy? :rolleyes: He doesn’t seem too scared to make his entire posting career out of attacking Jews.
Ever read anything by Jack Dean Tyler who spent hundreds of posts attacking Jewish beliefs? He didn’t get kicked off until (IIRC) he called another Doper a child-molstor.
Ever read Wildest Bill’s thread saying that Jews deserved the Holocaust because they’d turned away from God, but hey! They’re good wheeler-dealers so that makes up for it! That didn’t get him kicked off until he (repeatedly) attacked Clinton in General Questions after being warned to cool it (and the key words in that sentence were “attacked” and “in General Questions”, not “Clinton”, so don’t even bother going there)
Ever read a pretty heated debate between Ben and…um…Chaim(I think. I apologize if I’m wrong) about homosexuality, and Ben’s still around. I’ll see if I can dig up the link.
IDEAS are always subject to debate and ridicule on this Board. There are no “sacred cows”. Perhaps you’d be happier at the “Left Behind” Board if you’re scared of being challenged.
And your argument sounds suspiciously like “Jews control the board/media”. Care to expand on it?
scott evil, if you really want the thread closed, e-mail one of the mods for Great Debates (they’re all listed on the homepage). As the person who started the thread, you can ask for it to be closed. However, I always think it’s more fun to let the Debate carry on - SDMB is the sacred site of digressions!
So what? What does that have to do with this. Not a thing.
What I’m say is, now read this so you get it this time, is that it bugs me that it’s alright to attack Christian beliefs, but not others. What if this school was a Jewish school that wouldn’t allow a homosexual date? We probably wouldn’t have even heard the story. But seeing it’s a Catholic school, welllllllllllllllllllllll, those crazy bigoted people have to change their ways, right?
Yet I don’t hear you criticizing Jews for holding the same beliefs against homosexuality as Christians do. And yes, many of them do.
The argument of letting these 2 gays in is one that says the Catholic school isn’t allowed to set it’s own rules, rules which are based in their faith. By attacking those rules you are attacking their faith and saying they can’t have their own rules in their own church/school because it might hurt the feelings of a few people?
That’s outlandish! It’s their school. It’s their rules! Why is this kid attending a religous based school if he can’t abide by their doctrin?
They can’t disregard it, but the question is the effect of section 29 of the Charter which I quoted earlier in the thread.
At the heart of the constitutional guarantees for separate schools, protected by section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867, is the right to teach kids within the framework of the school’s religious beliefs.
Since that’s part of the constitutional guarantee, section 29 protects the exercise of religious values by the school administration, without the reliance on such values being contrary to the Charter.
First rule of civilized debate: do not attribute beliefs or opinions to your opponents and then challenge them on that basis. There is nothing that I have said in this thread that entitles you to make any assumptions about my reaction to moral values of Jewish groups.
Second rule for a civilized debate: debate the facts actually presented, not a hypothetical you make up. If you have a concrete example of Jewish groups asserting their moral values that bothers you, or that you approve of, bring it up for debate in the same way that scott evil did. Until you do that, I’ve no interest in debating your hypotheticals.
Good, because I have no more intrest in this thread. All I know is, it looks like those two are going to have to stay home on Prom Night. Awwwwwwwwwwwww!.
That’s how debate works. I do not debate with those I consider uninformed of the issue, and completely ignorant of the subject. Hence my deicison to not debate with whateverhisnameis. I have better things to do with my mental capacity than to sit here typing retorts to someone who won’t even give my words thought and reflection. I only have a limited time on this Earth, and I intend to spend it happily, thank-you-very-much.
Homophobes, come and get me. I’ll say it again: I don’t care.
pkbites: Yet I don’t hear you criticizing Jews for holding the same beliefs against homosexuality as Christians do.
Then allow me, on behalf of us non-hypocrite non-homophobe liberals, to say it a little louder. Although we support the right to freedom of religious belief, including the right to hold religious beliefs that we consider immoral, we do consider it immoral to condemn or denigrate homosexuality, whether it be done by right-wing Christians, orthodox Jews, conservative Muslims, or anybody else. And yes, there have been threads in this forum where liberals have expressed that opinion to orthodox Jews.
I happen to find the act of a man putting another mans penis in his mouth, or having it rammed in his anus, very gross.
Speaking as a heterosexual female, I happen to find it kind of cute, [sub]“omigod! boys do that too?”[/sub] but you have a perfect right to your own opinion.
*And I don’t want to associate with people who do this kind of thing. I’m allowed to pick and choose who I deal with. *
Perfectly true. I can’t help wondering, though, if those are your sentiments, why you would choose to deal with this thread. It must have been obvious to you right from the OP that there were homosexuals here.
I am also against people who always want to force institutions to change their rules to benefit a small minority.
Fairness, tolerance and renouncing discrimination don’t just benefit the small minority that was previously discriminated against: they benefit us all.
I wanted to make a public apology to the Board and to Sweet Willy for this crack. Comparisons to Nazis weaken the horrors they committed and, regardless of that, frankly it was a pretty classless drive-by and I’m not particularly proud of myself for it.
