Don’t be so negative in your thinking. I doubt I am alone in lurking and reading along.
Even during Nixon’s darkest hour, his approval rating was still a whopping 31%. Like I said, there’s a certain percentage of people in this country that literally will stand behind the President no matter what he does.
Y’know Hentor, we were actually having a pretty decent debate here, werent’ we? Oh well.
Yeah, but all it takes a small majority in both Houses of Congress and impeachment will be the talk of the day. You can’t blame the diehard Pubbie partisans for the fact that the Dems can’t get control of Congress now, can you?
Let’s see what happens in '06.
At some point in time you’re going to have to get over the election just like you’ll have to get over the fact that the Mayor and Governor created the situation and then made it worse for their constituents. Instead of a simple evacuation using city and state assets the Federal Government had to bring in hundreds of helicopters and equipment from all over the US. I’m sure the people in the direct path of the Hurricane appreciated the attention NO got. I can only wonder at this point how much of it was diverted because The Mayor’s escape plan trapped the people he was supposed to evacuate.
So that’s the official talking point from those who are “not playing the blame game”, huh? It’s all the Democrats’ fault.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05254/568876.stm
This whole ‘Bush is to blame’ is partisan bullshit. It was a f*cking hurricane. It wasn’t the Republicans or Democrats fault. New Orleans was in for a world of shit no matter what anyone did. Nobody wanted to spend the billions it would have cost to strengthen the levies, they failed, wa-wa everywhere.
Get over it all ready…
I doubt it, actually. The Pubbies succeeded last time around in devaluing impeachment as the tool of statecraft it was intended to be by using it as a tool of personal spite. No matter the basis for doing it now (and if lying us into a war isn’t enough by itself, what is?), they’d be able to spin it as simple revenge. Such spin would succeed, too, there being so many who can’t conceive of putting country before party.
You can certainly blame them for putting party above country.
Well, no, it comes down to a preponderance of public opinion being that allowing him to remain in office represents an unacceptable danger to the nation. Not the same thing. How, btw, would you prove what you want to be proven? Do you have some “non-partisan” standards to propose?
And this pressure that would be effective on him would come from whom, exactly? He only talks to yesmen.
No, you have not. You’ve offered the opinion that things would be worse without him, but you have not backed that up with anything at all. I’ve asked you how it would be possible, and you can’t respond. If President Hastert couldn’t be worse, then in all probability he’d be better, wouldn’t he? And once again, the issue is the level of danger to the nation from allowing Bush to remain as President.
Care to explain the relevance of that remark?
Nobody? Really? You sure?
For crying out loud, man, do you EVER not tire of whining about the Republicans? Wah, wah, wah, the Democrats can’t use impeachment because the Repubicans ruined it. If the Democrats can’t win control of Congress, and, if they do and can’t overcome Republican “spin” then it’s time you found a new party for yourself.
Do you have someone in mind who actually was in a position to allocate funds who is on record prior to this storm saying that we should spend $14 billion (or however many billion it would take to get the levees rated to CAT 5). Certainly in retrospect it looks like a good idea…a bargin in fact (at twice the price :)), as the damage is likely to cost us an order more.
Do you think there is such a preponderance of public opinion, Elvis? Besides, I doubt the public will be involved in the process…isn’t that a function of the Congress/Senate? Or is it a function of the Judiciary? I can’t remember this one from Civics class.
I’m sure there are guidelines for removing a president if he is unstable or due to other health reasons. I seriously doubt even the dread Republican controlled Congress is going to let him go completely off the deep end and just kick back and watch.
Well, thats the meme of the month, certainly. I remember when HE was supposed to be a puppet on a string and a yes man himself. It changes. Reguardless, even if he is surrounded by yes men, the Congress isn’t his bitch…thats who would put pressure on him if he’s gone around the bend. I know you think that the Republicans would let him stay even if he’s literally barking mad…but I have at least that much faith in our system that it won’t happen.
Short of that this is all just left wing porn…the fantasy of Bush and Chaney resigning in disgrace, blah blah blah. Not…gona…happen.
My point was I offered an opinion and some debate points…you merely attacked them. I explained why I thought Hastert WOULD be worse…or at least the situation would be worst for the country reguardless of how good or bad Hastert might or might not be. See the difference? Let me just get to the point then. WHY do you think it would be better? What do you think would be the realistic effect on the US domestic and foreign policy if Bush/Chaney resigns in disgrace? What would the effect be on the economy? How would the next 3 years be better…or even different…without Bush/Chaney in the drivers seat. Realistically? Without all the rjung chimp at the wheel bullshit, what would change for the better?
Well, it was a ‘duh!’ phrase to go with the blindingly obvious quote I was responding too. Sort of a ‘sky is blue, water is wet…A is A’ type deal. 
-XT
When they stop being assholes…
I’ll stop doing it as soon as they stop giving reason to do it, how’s that for ya? Meanwhile, the people in complete charge get all the criticism. It comes with the territory, duh. What’s there to criticize about the party that is completely excluded from any say in how the government is run? You’ve been awfully silly here lately, ya know.
How could you not know? The work was well under way until 2003, when funding got diverted to pay for Bush’s war. Start here. Wow.
Pretty close. His approval ratings are reaching Nixon’s bottom, and, dare I point out, barely half of Clinton’s during his own impeachment.
It would help you immensely to do your homework before publicly admitting ignorance. Sure, the public plays no official role, but it’s a political process guided by the political environment for all that. Meanwhile, you have confirmed that you have no standards to propose, but you still decry the vagueness of standards others suggest, hmm?
You offered an opinion not consistent with reality. I attempted to correct you. You refuse correction. Shrug.
A lot of apologist are trying to shift the blame to the Mayor for not commandeering the school buses we’ve all seen under water. And to the Governor for not making evacuation mandatory. Now I’ve not read many city charters or the Louisiana Constitution. But of the ones I have read, I don’t recall them giving the Governor and especially not the Mayor such power. Could they have actually done what they’re blamed for not going?
Um…did you actually read what I wrote? Or to put it another way, do you know the difference between $430 (or $230 remaining) million and $14 billion? Here, from your article:
The figures you are quoting here were the ones to get the repair the levee system up to a CAT 3 rating IIRC…not to get it up to a CAT 5 rating (which is what I was talking about). In other words, even if this had been fully funded the levees wouldn’t have been rated for the storm that actually hit.
You’d need to show me some proof of the Nixon claim. IIRC Nixon dropped into the 20’s for approval…and Bush is hovering somewhere in the 40’s (perhaps the high 30’s) last time I checked. As for as this storm goes, seems to me that public opinion is slowly shifting the blame towards the local and region government…though Bush is still getting hammered for his part in all this too. You do realize that even if Bush drops to a 10% approval rate or even lower (something not likely to happen as he’s probably already as low as he’ll go considering his base) thats not grounds for impeachment…right? Public opinion has zero to do with impeaching a president.
How is it showing my ignorance to point out that you are full of shit? Public opinion has nothing to do with impeachement, which is what I said (and is what YOU are saying here too, sifting through your usual BS doubletalk), and you are showing your own partisan tendencies to try and go down this path.
So, I ask you to elaborate, and you instead hand wave that its ‘not consistent with reality’. In other words, you got nada. shrug I’m militantly unsurprised Elvis.
-XT
Do you have a cite that illustrates that the $14 billion figure was just to get the levees up to withstand a category five hurricane? I was under the impression that the $14 billion was the estimated cost for a far more comprehensive project that involved more than just the levees.
I recall reading recently that Nixon dropped only to 31%. Bush is at 38% right now.
I disagree. Those involved in impeaching a president are tremendous whores to public opinion. If their constituents were calling for it, they would do it (or would try to weasel out of it so as to try to straddle both sides, like Specter did regarding the vote to remove Clinton). A near majority favored impeachment a few months back if it could be shown that Bush lied about WMD. I would like to see new polls that include questions about removal from office, but I have no real solid belief that public opinion would get hot enough for the Republicans to feel enough heat.
You’re a fine one to talk about producing nada, xtisme, having recently acknowledged your penchant for taking up opposing points of view merely for the fun of it.
I saw it on a show I was watching last night…so, I conceed it could very well be wrong or misremembering. Do you have a cite amplifying that $430 million number to claim that it would get the levee’s up to a CAT 5 rating, because what I read on Factchecker seems to say that this isn’t so.
Well, again, I could be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall Nixon was in the 20’s…if I have time later I’ll see if I can dig that one up. As for Bush, no idea where you are getting your numbers from…the polls seem to be all over the place. This article that I was just reading puts it at 42 percent:
If that was the case then unpopular presidents would always face impeachment due solely to their unpopularity.
Assuming you are correct and a majority of American’s favored impeachment over Bush’s ‘lies’ about WMD…whats been done? Has he been impeached when I wasn’t looking? Lets say you are right and Bush’s poll numbers really are at 38% or even lower…do you really expect him to be impeached because of this?
While I acknowledge that I do enjoy playing devils advocate, I don’t see how it has any bearing on this Hentor. I listed out why I thought things would be worse if Bush/Chaney were to resign in disgrace…or just resign. Elvis chose not to address any of those points but to handwave. When I asked him to elaborate he merely spouted that my points were ‘not consistent with reality’. Not consistent with reality how exactly? I don’t mind someone puncturing my points with logic, ripping them to shreds with reason, or citing me facts that shows I’m clearly wrong…in fact I get a lot out of folks doing that. But handwaving?
-XT
I’m not even going to comment on this. I’ll just let it stand as a testimony of exactly what I was talking about. Astounding…
Oh, and nice ad hominem, btw.
One source of many for the poll numbers Hentor has provided (thanks).
Associated Press, 10 Sep 05.
From a paper enlightened enough to run the Dope, printed even before Katrinagate:
Got the picture now, chief?
It didn’t in Clinton’s case, granted. But remember that the Congressmembers who act have to run for re-election, and in most cases can be recalled even before then if they go against public opinion too strenuously. Hardly “zero”.
When you’ve done some research of your own on the levee funding story, come back. Don’t forget the pie, either.