16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shall save nothing alive that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:
And as to merely “waging war.” On God’s instruction the Israelites waged an agressive war of extermination in order to take away the land of people who were already in possession.
Diogenes
I just had a couple of points and questions for you. I’m not saying that it wasn’t bad, but wasn’t slavery just pretty much a fact of life in the time period you’re discussing? Didn’t people actually sell themselves into slavery when they were destitute? Weren’t the wars that G-d is not even noted to be involved in pretty much just like the ones you’re referring to? Even much more recent war, the Civil War for example involved raping and killing pretty much anything in their path at times. It unfortunately seems to be a characteristic of man, not that I’m saying G-d didn’t allow us those characteristics. I believe he did. Man has never NOT deprived others of basic human rights. It’s happening right now. It will always happen in some form or another. Does it really matter whether G-d “ordered” it or created it along with us? Same origin, same outcome. Is your problem with Harmonious’ argument that she won’t agree that all these things are as evil as you believe they are and blame G-d for them? I can’t speak for her(well maybe a little, she can correct me), but what I see is you are arguing the Bible and only the Bible and we are arguing the Bible, but with a belief and trust in G-d and a promise of a life that goes beyond this one. Of course we can’t prove anything beyond the literal words in the Bible to you and I know it’s irritating, but it does affect our perspective. It doesn’t make us bad because we don’t share quite the same level of outrage over evil that you do. It doesn’t mean we don’t care or hurt. It does affect the impact and horror of the bad things that happen. Any and all proof of evil and wrong and who’s really “to blame”, in the world doesn’t matter quite so much if death isn’t really the end. All of the baby killing and other atrocities lose their ugly finality. Obviously not a point for debate, but an explanation for possibly not assigning the same importance or tragedy to the events that you do.
Unless the man decided not to force himself on his wife and wooed her to fall in love with him first. Taking a woman as wife doesn’t necessarily mean the man forces sex on her if she doesn’t want it. I know you’ll say that’s ridiculous but some men are able to control themselves.
Don’t be naive, lynn. Just as slavery was an accepted custom in the ancient world, it was also a matter of course that women were taken as “spoils” in wars. The women of conquered people were nothing but property (“booty” if you will).
I should also point out that the specification that the Israelites could only take virgins (and that they should kill all the non-virgins) meant that they were literally taking children as trophies. Women were married at 13 or 14 years of old in those days. That only leaves children. It hardly makes it any more noble for a guy to marry an eleven year old girl before he rapes her (and don’t forget, he already killed her family).
IWLN:
Yes, slavery, massacres, etc. were not seen as the abominations then that we see them as now, but the Bible says that God himself approved of those things. Does God’s morality change to fit humans?
Obviously, you don’t think so. The point I’m trying to make to *Harmonious is that God, as described in the Bible, is indefensible as an omnibenevolent deity. I’m only speaking of “God” as a literary character, the same way I’d speak of Huck Finn or Captain Ahab.
Harminious,
I think it should also be pointed out that there was an interval of centuries (anywhere from 200-400 years, depending on where you look) between the Exodus and the slaughter of the Amakelites. Is it really that rational or just to take vengence on an entire people, including their children and infants, for acts that their ancestors had committed generations before?
lynn.
Stop digging.
You cannot win this debate.
Your argument that “some men will woo the girls whose families they have killed and its okay” is ridiculous.
No offense, but it is.
Maybe God didn’t order this, maybe the men decided this was the way it would be.
“God has ordered you to marry me!”
Heck, in the described situation above, I would claime to be a non-virgin.
Why weren’t these girls armed anyway?
I’m not sure if you were trying to insult me with this statement or not, but since I pretty much think it’s true; okay. I do think morality is a human concept/judgment and doesn’t really have any descriptive context to G-d. It would be pretty ludicrous for me to think I was somehow more moral than G-d.
Yeah, I think I knew you were teasing. Just couldn’t think of anything else to say. No, it’s not a big secret that we disagree. Guess it would be pretty boring if we all agreed with each other. :eek:
No insult intended, just clumsy phrasing. I was just trying to clarify that my question was not directed so much at you as over your shoulder to some of the other people in this thread.
Oh…you want me to duck. A question first. The word benevolent isn’t used in the Bible, is it? I’ve been looking for what was quoted as G-d actually describing his nature. I found loving, jealous and powerful. Who actually said he was benevolent? It wasn’t those “same people” who made up hell was it?
Just couldn’t think of anything else to say. No, it’s not a big secret that we disagree. Guess it would be pretty boring if we all agreed with each other. :eek:
Uh huh.