God heals? Question FROM a Christian

Great Debates
1

First, I’m not one of the resident atheists out to prove that God does not exist. I have recently been doubting my faith, but I still have enough left to believe that I will come around.

Question, though: I have a friend who is 34 years old and has been told that she has a year to live because she is suffering from breast cancer which has spread to bone, lymph nodes, and lungs. I visited her the other day and heard her talk about how Jesus is on her side, and her friends were telling her that God was stronger than the cancer, etc.

My question: Didn’t God allow her to have cancer in the first fucking place? If God wants to heal her, he could have just as easily not made her sick first, no?

I believe that the standard response would be that God is testing her to make her stronger, but I’ll be straight up and bet money that she dies. And when she is dead, what was the purpose then?

I’m asking with no preconceptions. I really would like thoughts on this from people of faith and…sure all you atheists chime in and try to bring me to the dark side :wink:

Thanks…

2

I really don’t understand what you’re asking? I think you have a pretty good understanding of the standard christian responses to the situation. Are you looking for other christian rationales as well? Are you asking whether God or Jesus has the power to cure her?

Maybe Satan gave her cancer to piss off God? Or to piss YOU off? Or to give you doubts?

Yes, maybe this is all about you!!

Yes, I’m an atheist. If there is a god, it is an irrational vindictive god. Come to think of it, the Roman gods seem a closer approximation to reality – squabbling with each other and using humans as helpless pawns.

3

I’m interested to hear what people say about this too. My (similar) pet peeve is when something really tragic happens and maybe one person survives, like “There was an earthquake and Bob survived! Praise the Lord!” But what about all the people who died? If you’re going to give God credit for the people who survive, shouldn’t he take the blame for the ones who don’t? Nobody I ask ever has an answer other than some variation of “It’s not our place to question God’s plan,” which just isn’t good enough for me.

4

In my non-Christian spiritual opinion, the Divine (whether that’s an external God/dess or a Higher Self of the person herself) wants to learn about living a corporeal existence, and does that by being born on this plane. Sometimes that includes suffering, and pain, and an early death, and sometimes it includes a long life. So yes, God can both have given her cancer *and *want her to be healed, and on the way learn some interesting things about strength and medical science and maybe miracles and love, as well as tears and frustration and pain and loathing and I don’t know all what else.

God heals, but because God has given *us * (or we have given ourselves) the tools to heal - mentally, in recognizing healing plants and inventing medical science, physically, in the form of doctors and nurses and antibiotics and chemotherapy agents, and also spiritually, in our own inner resources, in family, in community (be that friends or church or message boards.)

I don’t think there’s anything there that’s not in most (all?) Christian thought, fundamentally, except they’d say God sent your soul here, not that He’s here in you.

5

First, I am very sorry to hear about your friend. Cancer sucks about as hard as suckiness can.

As for the religion part, God, being God, definitely is stronger than the cancer. What do you think he hardened Pharaoh’s heart with?

Jeremiah 32:27
I am the God of all flesh - Is there anything that is too hard for me?

And, it goes without saying that God could heal it. One touch or fleckle of spit and BOOM, fresh as a fig tree.

Exodus 15:26
I am the LORD that heals you

Well, the general you. Third point: all things happen in accord with God’s will. That’s why the world is such a great place to live. And, even if all things is stretching things a tad, surely this cancer is part of His plan. Ad majorem Dei gloriam, right?

“And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him” (1 John 5:14,15).

On top of that, cancer’s got no free will of its own, so there’s sadly no way to take refuge there. No, I’m afraid what your friend really needs to be asking herself now is, what in tarnation did she do to get God so pissed off at her? She must have done something mighty terrible to get cancer. I guess if she truly repents for her debased wickedness, there miiiiiight be a chance of healing, but I would’t get her hopes up.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind.

Ouch. But hey, look at the bright side, the knowledge that this is all her fault will help her face death peacefully.

6

With all the billions and billions of people who’ve lived and died, and who knows how many millions dying of cancer, god hasn’t figured it out yet? God is making people sicken and die as a personal growth experience?

This certainly isn’t part of christian faith. God is supposed to be all-knowing.

7

If God allowed the martyrs to die horrible deaths, why should He intercede for your friend? I’m not saying God can’t work miraculous cures, but life is finite for all of us. And with an eternal life, the amount of time spent on this earth is just a blink. If you truly believe in eternal life, you have to look beyond the immediate. When we have a funeral, we should celebrate.

My Catholic opinion.

StG

8

My sister - who is a not terribly devout Methodist - had that same issue with her (curable and in remission) breast cancer. She started saying straight out “it would be nice if God didn’t GIVE me the cancer.” That usually shut up the do gooders.

Whatever God is (or isn’t) it is pretty clear that He generally doesn’t interfere in ordinary lives in the “curing cancer” or “giving cancer” sense. IF He exists (I’m a Deist married to an atheist, myself) what he does is help provide strength to face whatever life - not God - has thrown at you. (If you want to believe in a God who works a few miracles on the side, go for it. But if He does, I don’t think they’d be common - and their existence certainly wouldn’t reflect badly on those He didn’t work miracles for. He seems rather capricious in that fashion. But I shouldn’t comment - He isn’t a God I believe in.)

I lost a friend to breast cancer a year an a half ago. Eighteen months worth of fight. A wonderful, deeply spiritual (although I’ve never been clear on the Christian or Pagan or Both thing - she seemed to accept whatever traditions were working for her) woman. Whatever faith she did have was helpful in allowing her to accept and prepare herself for her death. I won’t insult those who aren’t spiritual by saying that its necessary, but I will say that she - and her husband, also a deeply spiritual person - were inspiring. And both credited their spirituality with being helpful in coming to terms.

9

I highly recommend the following book by Dobson. I honestly think it can help you more than an internet message board, though there are a lot wonderful people here too.

When God Doesn’t Make Sense

10

It was an accident. No one caused it, no one is allowing it, it just is. Comforting, no?

11

I don’t have any useful answers from a faith standpoint because I’m an atheist. But when you get down to it, all of us have a hard time when we see horrendous things happening to people for [you pick] no reason or no comprehensible reason. There’s no fundamentally satisfying answer to this kind of crap. If there was, somebody would’ve figured it out a long time ago. I’m sorry for what you and your friend are going through here. I hope she has a lot more time than the doctors expect.

Oh, and fuck cancer.

12

I’m debating whether or not to post a reply, because this may not be what you should be hearing right now. This posting hits on a really personal level because my mom died from breast cancer, and because of her religion, she did not seek any medical attention because she believed God would heal her.

The best answer I can give to your question is that many people believe God has a plan for us. If someone contracts breast cancer, struggles through it, and survives, the person will most likely emerge stronger, more grateful for life, with a renewed faith in the power of God, etc. However, if she dies, if you believe in heaven and believe she is a good person, she will go to heaven. And maybe that’s what God’s plan is for her.

I’m sure this is really hard to hear as a friend of hers, but as a practicing Christian, I think the important thing to recognize is that we as humans with our limited vantage points don’t always comprehend the best course of action. To think that God doesn’t exist or has limited power because he doesn’t fit in with our conception of how life should go attributes incredible intelligence to the human mind. To think that there is much that we don’t comprehend about the circle of life and the workings of the universe, and to trust that there’s a greater power than us who is guiding the process along, is a much more humble and comforting viewpoint to take.

13

Thanks for all of the replies. I understand that bad things happen as part of God’s divine plan. In other words, if I die tomorrow, well, that sucks for me and my friends and family, but we have to trust that He decided I should die tomorrow as part of a greater good and/or part of a greater plan. Check.

My question is about all of her supporters telling her that Jesus heals and that just to trust in Him. To me it would be like having a friend Bob who watched while gasoline was poured around your house, allowed someone to strike a match and set the house on fire and then when you are desperately trying to put the house out, someone tells you to give Bob a call because he’s great at putting out fires.

It’s not really limited to this. Some old person at church gets a medical test back that is good news: Praise Jesus. He heals. Well, what about the thousands of other people who got bad medical results that day? Jesus was out to lunch?

14

My brother, a devout Catholic, says that God always answers prayers, but sometimes the answer is “No”.

15

jtgain - I think God gives us medical personnal with the skills to help (and sometimes heal). Thinking that “God will heal me if I just have enough faith” is denying the gifts God has given you (doctors) and asking for a better, more special gift (divine healing). That’s sort of spitting in God’s face, IMHO.

StG

16

A friend of my mom’s got pretty radical breast cancer in both breasts, had one mastectomy, then said, WTF, I am a fucking witch! And she started doing spells, vedic stuff, aromatherapy, herbal rubs, coffee enemas, etc, and she swears straight up that the lump oozed out of her breast- whatever, she has been cancer free for more than a decade…

So belief may be the key-

Personally, if I have any belief at all- (and I don’t really, it is mostly a fantasy hope) it is that the buddhists are right and we are all essentially the same person, reliving every living thing- easy to feel at one with the forest, harder to face being Hitler, but read some Thich Nat Hanh if you are interested further…

17

Herding lambs with Jesus, or building log cabins in heaven. You can bet her pastor will come up with something banal and vomit-inducing for the funeral service.

I’m sorry your friend has cancer. :frowning: If it takes the delusion of faith to get her through the day, I don’t think any but the most heartless of atheists could begrudge her that. If I were diagnosed with cancer, I’d be out of my gourd on weed all day, every day to cope with it.

18

God must have a learning disability.

19

when my mom had cancer, she turned, if possible, even more to religion than she had been. But for the first time I didn’t resent it. She was just trying to comfort herself from something that was practically a death sentence and trying to find some meaning in her life.

I accept that as part of religion, and I am a staunch atheist & apatheist - I don’t believe in or need a god, and I don’t really care whether god exists or not, if none of his actions can be seen.

20

I recently had a relative die of cancer after a long illness. It is a difficult thing, and any answer I give might seem tinged with flippancy, or heartlessness, or some other fault. But here’s my response:
If you truly believe in God and an Afterlife, then you have to take the long view – our life on Earth is temporary, and its relative length is nothing, compared to an eternal afterlife. Seen in this way, dying and leaving Earth is akin to graduating High School and going to College or a Job. It’s a temporary condition (and arguably a Proving Ground) where we spend some time before Moving On. The tragedy is in the suffering that may precede the death, and the long separation from friends and loved ones that death brings.
Seen in this light, Death isn’t the Awful Thing it’s made out to be and God is not a Monster. I note that many popular works of fiction try to remove the sting of death with such considerations – the movie Heaven Can Wait from 1977, for instance (I’m not sure if the other versions treated death the same way), or Heinlein’s Stranger in a Strange Land.

If you’re atheist or agnostic, then death is what happens at the end of life, however it is brought about, and there’s no problem of God to begin with.