It’s from a site whose main page has stuff like
and
'Nuff said?
Actually CJ I’m going away for 3-4 weeks and won’t have computer access and I like to be involved in threads I start, so that is why.
I have a very good friend who is a conspiracy type person and he told me to check out this site. I’d like to give my opinions but I can’t knowing that I won’t be able to respond to yours. If you want to start a thread about it CJ go for it. I will look forward to reading it when I return.
Jeff Rense is a friend of JanL, believe it or not. I think that kind of shows the bias of it.
…me For those who believe Homosexuality is wrong, they should do me.
I could so hear Crow saying that on MST3K!
I think that in this case it is because people like His4ever just haven’t been taught that god hates it. Logical consistency isin’t very important.
Hmmm. This is a good question, and (while I am obligated to say that I do not believe that homosexuality is wrong) I feel I may be able to shed some light on the anti-homosexual beliefs that some people have.
Think of something that you find wrong, but that people may feel compelled to do. Pedophelia is often used as an example, but it can be other things, like theft and murder, which can arise from compulsions, obsessions, or mental problems (“natural” causes, in that they cannot be actively chosen by the individual"). Does a compulsion to do a thing, even if you have no control over the compulsion, make it more moral to do it when you have control over whether or not you actually do it?
[Just to avoid hijacking this thread, I’ll note again that I don’t agree. I don’t think it’s fair to put love between two consensual adults on the level of rape, let alone murder. However, we are talking about fundamentalist Christianity, and to a fundamentalist, something is wrong because God says it is. Thus, as homosexuality is, arguably, prohibited in the Bible, it is wrong; murder and theft are wrong for the same reason.]
As DrVisible pointed out in his eloquent post, homosexuality and homosexual acts are not the same thing. It is possible for a homosexual not to have homosexual sex. Thus, if the person’s orientation cannot be changed, the only solution is to be celibate. This parallels the above examples of other (perceived) sins – if you are a kleptomaniac, you are morally obligated to not steal even if you cannot be cured of kleptomania.
The jury is still out among fundamentalists on conversion therapy and changing sexual orientation, just as it is on whether or not a person chooses to be gay. Ultimately, if you believe that homosexuality is wrong and that there is no way to question its immorality, these are irrelevant issues. A fundamentalist Christian does not see sex or even an adult romantic relationship as necessary or even important compared to the question of salvation.
So in the final wash, it’s still the three things I mentioned earlier:
[list=1][li]Celibacy;[/li][li]Lie and marry someone of the opposite sex despite continued homosexual feelings, for it is just as important, if not moreso, to appear heterosexual than to genuinely be heterosexual; or[/li][li]Use members of the opposite sex as sex objects since that is the only acceptable alternative to celibacy.[/list=1][/li]
There were some grumblings about a homosexual having the possibility of loving their opposite-sex partner, but it would be, at best, platonic love, but more realistically would be, at best, a close friendship. The physical act of sex seems to be an irrelevant component to the equation, or would serve only to create children.
Does no one who is “against” homosexuality see how paltry, pathetic and disastrous this is? And you say we are the ones “despoiling the institution of marriage” by asking to have our lifelong loving relationships recognized?
Esprix
Esprix:
There is another possibility:
While I see nothing wrong with active homosexuality, let us for the sake of argument assume there is.
What kind of wrong is it?
Would it be bad like killing somebody?
From my understanding of the Bible, it’s not like that at all.
It would be a venial sin, exactly along the lines of a heterosexual masturbating, or engaging in oral sex with his wife.
So, if we follow the Bible, and believe that it’s wrong…
It’s just a little wrong. Not a big one.
We all do lots of small things that are wrong.
“It is wrong of me to pig out and eat this whole yummy steak by myself.”
“It is wrong to wear this suit and this tie together.”
If homosexuality is wrong. It’s wrong like that.
If there is a God, and for whatever unfathomable reason, he frowns on homosexuality, I am sure that it is in the same way that he frowns upon the oral sex my wife and I engage in.
I suspect that these things have been distorted as well, and that if there is a God his message is more along the lines of that it is wrong to let yourself be consumed by these things.
So in that respect, I think Homosexuals should go on, and find what meaningul relationships they can that make them happy as persons.
I think God’s warning applies equally to Homosexuals as it does to heteros.
Enjoy the meaningful fruits of the flesh, but do not be consumed by them.
I think that’s what’s really being said.
Scylla, I daresay that would be a minority interpretation, particularly based on some of the things I’ve read on this board and in this thread.
I do want to thank the rabid fundamentalist Christians here for once again affirming my disbelief in your religion. It’s always good to remind yourself where you stand in the world.
Can I get a witness? 
Esprix
**Scylla wrote:
While I see nothing wrong with active homosexuality, let us for the sake of argument assume there is.
What kind of wrong is it?**
We tried hashing out this question in another thread a while back. There was no good answer other than “because God says so!”
For things like murder, theft and other various crimes, there’s a definitve victim and some physical “damage.” With murder, it’s taking another life, unlawfully (other than in self-defense). With theft, you’re taking another person’s property against their will. Even with adultery, you could say you’re breaking your marriage vows. But with homosexuality… ???
All of this leads me to believe that (the J/C/I) God never made any pronouncement about homosexuality at all. Those verses in Leviticus and Paul’s letters are merely the opinions the authors writing from the morality and social mores of their time. They’re NOT commandments from (the J/C/I) God.