Ford/GM/Chrysler can't make cars.

In My Humble Opinion
21

I agree with both these sentiments. The Focus is indeed one of the cars that’s been successful abroad (UK) as a competitive alternative to cars in it’s class. It has done well here but never received the high accolades it has abroad.

Though it appears that American cars are built with Americans (primarily) in mind… and that’s no small market segment, what’s keeping them from thinking globally given the obvious success of their competitors? It’s not like they’d lose their base if they made the transition to more globally appealing products.

Large displacement and high output engines are not just an American car domain any longer. In fact, Audi, VW, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, MB, LandRover, Lexus, Infinity etc… have been putting out perfomance models for a very long time. Few American models can even compete with their performance specs.

Is cheap manufacture and quality and mass production a way of controlling the market (to some degree) by enabling them to dump cars at deep discounts. In other words, why out engineer when you can undercut?

22

The new Ford Fusion is as good as any car in its class. Two recent comparisons in Motor Trend and Car and Driver had it beating the Camry quite handily, and coming in just a whisker behind the new Honda Accord. And it’s thousands of dollars cheaper.

I have a Ford Escape that I’ve put 45,000 Kilometers on so far, and it doesn’t even have a rattle in it. The Escape has above average reliability according to JD Power.

We used to have a Ford Taurus, and we ran it to just shy of 100,000 miles without any unscheduled maintenance.

BTW, the Camry and Accord are both built in U.S. factories, but the ‘American’ Ford Fusion is built in Mexico.

In terms of reliability, overall Japanese cars are still the best. Europe and the U.S. are about even. But individual models from any manufacturer can be very highly rated.

23

The best comment I ever heard on this subject was a few years ago from an automotive writer. He was noting that the Geo Prizm and the Toyota Corlla were virtually the same car, built on the same assembly line by the same workers. They were priced comparably, performed comparably and had comparable quality and reliability. Yet the Prizm was widely considered to be inferior.

He went on to note that when you compared the interiors, the Corolla had a nicely finished interior, while the Prizm’s seemed cheap. “You buy a Corolla, you think you got a great deal for the money,” he said. “You buy a Prizm, and all you can think is ‘Cheapskate, you should have spent the extra $15 and have a clock instead of an empty space in the panel.’”

BTW, I believe the reason the Prizm isn’t listed on any of the new car comparisons is because GM doesn’t produce them anymore.

24

If people don’t like Chyrslers, blame the Germans.

Second:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-10-26-consumer-reports-usat_x.htm
DETROIT — Consumer Reports’ annual reliability survey, released Wednesday, challenges the belief that Japanese cars are generally made better than domestic vehicles.

The redesigned Toyota Avalon was rated with average reliability, lower than any of Toyota’s other cars.

Vehicles that Nissan makes at its new plant in Mississippi — the Quest minivan, Armada SUV, Titan pickup and Infiniti QX56 SUV — are among the 48 least-reliable cars and trucks sold, the survey found.

The Acura RL, made by Honda, and the Honda Odyssey were also rated average.
Of the 31 cars that earned a top reliability rating, 29 were Japanese and two were domestic models. No European cars earned a top ranking

The list of least-reliable cars includes some of Europe’s most expensive nameplates, such as the Audi A8, BMW 7 series and Mercedes-Benz S-Class.

For the second year in a row, no European automaker made it on the most-reliable car list.

67% of Infiniti QX56 owners had to go back to the dealership because of problems.

While the quality gap between Asian and domestic carmakers is closing for new cars, Champion says as domestic cars age, the gap widens. After five years, domestic cars tend to have twice as many problems as Asian brands,

25

Alternative survey from Britain (done by Top Gear), which deals with overall owner satisfaction. Japan dominates the top of the top twenty. (However, there’s few American cars there, because they’re either simply not sold in Britain, or they’re rebadged or redesigned under another name.)

26

Errr, make that “dominates the top twenty”

27

Not all of them anyway. The UK Independant newspaper gave a good review to an American car - The Cadillac CTS.

http://motoring.independent.co.uk/road_tests/article327043.ece

Personally I admire the styling of many recent American cars especially Chrysler’s Crossfire.

28

The common perception seems to be that the Detroit manufacturers have never voluntarily built a better car or given better service than they were forced to by the competition or the law, whereas the foreign makers try to do the very best they can for a given price and customer segment.
The concept of cheap, reliable, efficient, pleasant cars with decent servicing was introduced to the US market by imports, and Detroit has been struggling to copy them ever since, and generally not doing it very well. Detroit has been kept alive by quirk of classifying SUVs as light trucks rather than huge fat-ass cars, and continuing to flood the market with giant gaz-guzzlers while learning how to build normal cars properly.

Now that they finally seem to have achieved parity in normal cars, its too late because most customers have twenty to thirty years experience of associating their brands with ugly clunky unreliable rubbish, and their lifeline has been cut by high fuel prices. GM and Ford debt is now rated as ‘junk’, and Chrysler is only safe curtesy of Daimler’s stupid decision a few years ago. So never mind that their cars and servicing may now be as good as the competition, and they may perhaps have changed their mindset to put the customer first - why would someone buy a durable good from a manufacturer that could quite possibly be in Chapter 11 within a few years? Toyota and Honda have pulled off the same trick that Sony, Samsung and others have managed - they have overtaken the people they were chasing, and established themselves as the standard-setters rather than imitators in the mind of the consumer. I can’t see Detroit managing to reverse that, given the bind they are in.

29

I’m gonna dodge here with an aphorism or two:

  1. Everyone likes to think they got a better deal|ride|car|Significant Other|Mutual fund| Lunch|Dental Floss than someone else. Makes 'em feel better. Doesn’t mean it’s true.
  2. There’s no accounting for taste.

Some of you just won’t be able to stand it but the idea that X’s cars are better than Y’s cars is very difficult to nail down. Everyone has some nice anecdotal evidence, some of it more than 25-35 years old to support their claims, and it supports their contention.

So, while I LOVE LOVE LOVE my 5 speed little motor PT Cruiser, and have had very few problems with it (a recall or two, a stuck seatbelt replaced under warrantee), there are some of you that’ll think I’m the worst babykiller ever for driving a Chrysler.

At the same time, I can’t understand the pull of the VW|Audi conglomerate, I just don’t understand their styling statements. But I don’t feel my decisions are superior to the decisions of a A4 owner. (I kinda dug the Allroad tho.)

Have American manufacturers made (and continue to make) bad decisions in the past? Yuppers. Are they alone in that respect? Nope. Is it fun/easy/profitable to slam American car manufacturers? You betcha.

Do american manufacturers have less engineering cred? I don’t see how you can say that when Each has a 500-574 hp motor in their lineup (Supercharged V8 from ford, 427 smallblock from Chevy, Viper V10 from Dodge.)

Do they have less design cred? I’m not sure how you can say that, since the world has both the Aztec and Subaru Tribeca.

I really don’t think your can point to a metric and say X is better than Y because there will always be a bias there from the folks that won’t want to admit they made a mistake. A Car is an Extremely expensive, primarily emotional purchase, designed to shelter you from that cost with sex appeal and low monthly payments. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW have had MORE than their fair share of QA related problems…but it’s just not as much fun or cool to bring that up.

Buy whatcha like, chances are there’ll be someone out there who thinks you’re a doofus…but they’re not making the payments now, are they?

30

My understanding is that the difference with American cars is to do with industrial culture. To sidestep slightly, consider MicroSoft. It’s big because it was the first into the market with a usable albeit seriously flawed product.

I’m lead to understand US car manufacturers have operated the same way. Getting that initial market share has been all important. Some problems; big or small, whatever the moment’s fashion, they’re still only cars, but the US manufacturers appears to have viewed each design/technology phase as a different product. Not so the consumers, who now associate US cars with products bought to market with undue haste and inadequate preparation or alternatively with products responding to the current mood of the US market well in advance of any import.

Whereas the German/Japanese industrial culture has emphasised precision in manufacture, so until lately the cars haven’t had a fashionable of-the-moment air, but they have always worked. Similarly the transient problems of the German manufacturers have arisen from adopting the American industrial model regarding their vehicle’s electronics. In the race to outdo each other with the latest micro-technology, preparedness and reliability have sufferred. The mechanicals of their cars remain superlative.

In a way it’s a pity, because during the sixties in a fit of pique Ford showed that American engineering, given the right management, can produce world beaters like the GT40. So we know they can do it, but decided not to carry that management/industrial culture into mass production.

31

After one year of ownership-zero repairs to my 2002 Pontiac Aztek; just normal maintenance. My highest gas mileage has been 29.3 and lowest 18.7, average 22.

I’ve owned my '97 Ford Ranger since it was new. A battery and oxygen sensor were replaced under warranty and a starter and a custom-molded,available-only-through-Ford fuel line have been my only repairs since the warranty ran out in 2000. The odometer just rolled over to 98,000 the ay before yesterday. I average 22mpg with a low of 17.9 and a high of 26.

The only major problem with the ‘91 Caravan I had prior to the Aztek was the transmission which gave me no trouble since a computer upgrade in 2000.
Yes, the van’s interior was getting shabby, but this was after 160,000 miles and 13 years’ use. My daughter still drives it daily.

Recently, I rented a 2005 Malibu with a 4-cylinder engine. It drove beautifully despite the fact that it had racked up 20,000+ miles in 10 months and felt not the least bit underpowered despite its being a bit large for the size of he engine.
I got 32 mpg in town.

I drove a co-worker’s '04 Corolla recently and felt like I was sitting in a kindergartner’s desk chair–the cushion was hard and short, no support under my knees. This smaller and lighter car wasn’t as lively as the Malibu. Nor did the dashboard seem any less cheap than that of any American small car-- in fact my son’s '95 Cavalier is nicer. I was simply driving the Corolla home from the dealership where he bought it while he tagged along in his other vehicle, so I don’t know about fuel economy first hand. The owner claims to get “around 30”–no better than the more-comfortable Malibu.

I just don’t see “superior Japanese quality”. What I do see is premature Japanese rust;and BTW, my 1985 Buick and 1987 Pontiac both had trouble-free electronic fuel injection while my sister’s '89 Accord had a crummy carburetor.

The vehicles that earned the Japanese their reputation were over-hyped junkers.

32

My 2001 Lincoln Continental has all of the same interior controls as my 2000 Ranger did, and they both have the same interior controls as my 1999 Expedition does. Thank goodness those are all old cars, and Ford now does nice looking interiors. The new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr, for example, are finally Ford cars that I can get excited about and genuinely like. Did you know that a base $17,900 Fusion has power everything? It’s not a disappointing, feature-lacking, old-style American car.

The car I still miss the most was my last Bonneville – it was an '00, and I’d had a '94 before it. The 01 was so full of bells and whistles that it makes my completely loaded Continental (that’s a Lincoln, right?) look pathetic. I think that other than the standard airbags, I can get a more loaded Fusion than my Continental. Oh, this paragraph meant to demonstrate that GM doesn’t lack bells and whistles, and in fact typically has offered more than Ford.

I can’t get close enough to a Chrysler to see what they have inside them. Really, and that’s not just immature, Calvin-pissing-on-a-Ford attitude either. It’s something in my very soul. ::shudder::

I’ve owned two Hondas. Absolutely loved them. But this isn’t the 80’s and 90’s anymore, and so there’s no longer anything special about a Honda that would draw me to them versus an American brand. If I didn’t work for a specific manufacturer, I would definitely consider looking at all brands, including the US brands, because they really are good these days.

33

I buy used cars and drive them until a major repair comes up that costs more than the car is worth. So far, none of my Civics have crapped out at under 250,000 miles. My current one is about to turn over to 170,000 and it still does not even leak oil or water. It starts on the first turn of the key no matter how cold it is (although, admittedly, it rarely gets even into the 20s here). There are no rattles or shimmies. The paint is starting to look old, the vinyl has a few cracks, and the a/c gave out this summer, but it has NEVER had anything but regular maintenance and a few light bulbs and a battery replaced. I must add that I’m one of those that really doesn’t care that much about comfort or appearance - I drive cars to get me down the road, and what the seats are made of or how stylish the tail lights are does not enter into that equation.

My Ford Escort, that was given to me by a kind soul taking pity on an ill single parent, blew its first gasket at 70,000 and the second at 95,000. By the time the second one blew it would cost more to make the repairs than the car was worth. At 95,000 miles. That’s when I took to the internet and discovered this was a very common situation. That’s also when I started looking around and noticed that, despite the volume at which Detroit was churning out Escorts, I almost never saw an old (say, 7 years or more) Escort on the road.

I know this is strictly anecdotal, but I would be a fool to buy an Escort ever again, don’t you think? (Yes, I know they’re no longer in productions, I am speaking rhetorically.)

I have no idea if this is reserved just for economy class cars. I do know that my mom’s Buick LeSabre is constantly in the shop despite the fact that it’s only five years old and has about 30,000 miles on it.

All that being said, should I ever move into the income class that allows me the luxury of picking cars based on style and comfort as well as dependability, I’d certainly keep my mind open to any car, no matter where its manufacturer is located on the map.

But for now, I need something that will get me from home to work and back with a minimum of cash and aggravation, and so far my Civics have always fit that bill. Plus, it’s one of the few non-sports cars that still come with a manual transmission!

34

It’s a homage to their 60s models.

I don’t care what they say, it ain’t a Charger if it’s got four doors.

That being said, the Japanese do have several edges over American car makers. Toyota can produce cars at a lower cost than GM (the same may be true of the other Japanese car makers as well) and the Japanese have a more dynamic and fast moving development culture than most American car companies. GM’s development process has been a total cluster for over a decade and the only division which was free of that was Saturn, but apparently, they’ve been pulled into the fold recently.

35

At least that car’s grille was in proportion to the car. These new things look grossly oversized.

36

I don’t know… I felt the same way about the Charger a while ago - too heavy, too bulky, automatic, not refined enough. I had a friend with a '74 Charger, and I felt the same way about it. It felt like an old guy’s sedan masquerading as a ‘muscle car’.

But the SRT-8 has got me coming around. This thing is just a bad-ass car. When it’s coming up behind you it must look like it’s about to tear your car a new one. You’ve got to admit, it has some serious attitude. There’s something to be said for that.

I wouldn’t buy one, because I’m not really trying to project attitude with my car. But I can see how this is appealing to those who are.