Forest fires

Factual Questions
1

Every summer the weather gets very hot and dry around here, and because of this we lose thousands of acres of beautiful, mature forests to devastating fires. These fires reduce tall, rich, magnificent stands of evergreens to charred ashes and leave the hillsides barren and lifeless. It pains me to see this happen every year because I know it has taken many years for these forests to become what they are. Yet it only takes mere minutes for a big fire to wipe it all out, and it will take many years for the trees to grow back to full maturity. I fear that with the rate at which fires consume the forests they’ll eventually all burn up and they’ll all be gone. Some of these fires total hundreds of thousands of acres.

Can someone who works in the field of forest management or in some related area of expertise assure me that this isn’t going to happen? I mean, the forests were there long before there were people around to manage them and to fight the fires, which were started by natural causes such as lightning, and the forests have managed to survive. Still, I have to wonder how it is that all the fires haven’t wiped out what’s taken hundreds of years to grow.

2

Fires are a natural process. It is “natural” to have large sections of forest taken out by fires. In recent years we have supressed the usual fires, making for a large amount of fuel (dead and dying trees, undergrowth) standing around that makes the fires larger than they would be otherwise.

Many trees requires large hot firest in order for their seed cones to open and spread. Fires are really a good thing.

3

No. Forest fires, despite the way most people think, are not only natural, but necessary. Part of the reason fires are so bad lately is over a half century of total suppression by the Forestry Service in the US, leaving the forest floors choked with undergrowth and tree litter that would otherwise have burnt off, and densely populated deciduous forests that are quite unnatural. Many species of plants, in particular, several genii of conifers require fires in order to procreate. so, no, not only will forest fires not wipe out forests, they are completely necessary for their health.

4

Like Q.E.D. said, fire is an important part of the forest cycle and many species cannot reproduce without fire. Also, forests have a natural cycle, where different species dominate.

Also, different forests have different fire regimes. A healthy Ponderosa Pine stand should see a low-intensity ground fire on average every 3-5 years. This helps keep the undergrowth down, and allows the healthy trees to grow bigger with less competition. A typical chapparral fuel type should see a higher-intensity fire about every 40 years. A mixed deciduous/coniferous forest like in Northern Michigan should see a stand-replacement fire about every 300 years.

Lastly, forests that see regular fires tend to be healthier than those that don’t. In the above mentioned Ponderosa Pine forest, the larger trees will be fire resistant, so most fires would burn off the surface fuels and some young trees. In contrast, a forest with too many trees will be more likely to lose its large trees in a fire because the smaller trees can act as ladder fuels that will burn the larger trees.

I recommend you check out this article from the New York Times (registration required).

St. Urho
Former USFS Firefighter

5

As another example: Have you ever been to Yellowstone, and seen the beautiful forests of lodgepole pines? The climax growth in Yellowstone isn’t actually pines, but hardwoods. But fires are frequent enough in Yellowstone, without human interference, that it actually never reaches climax growth. After each fire, the lodgepoles (which are one of the species which requires fire to reproduce: The pinecones are glued shut with a resin that melts open in the fires) are the first to get a toehold (or roothold, I guess), and nothing else gets a chance to get established before the next fire.

6

There is a LOT of forested land out there , 10,000-20,000 acres are hardly a drop in the bucket compared to the total area of forest in the US alone.

7

Also helps clear out those pesky humans who don’t clear their brush and weeds.

:smiley:

Three words every firefighter hates to hear.

Wildand Urban Interface

8

Interestingly enough they probably weren’t, or at least not in the present form. Remember the glaciers only retreated from most of North Am about 10, 000 years ago. These forests have only colonised since then, and that march northward was pretty slow. Then most of the Northern parts of he continent experienced pretty severe climate change about 2000 years ago which totally altered the forest structure.

Then we have the influence of people since then. Prior to human arrival the forests that existed would probably have been fire tolerant species in areas that experience regular natural fires, primarily pines as Chronos describes, or grassland. In areas that did not experience regular fires the forest communities that established would have become naturally fire retardant, with deep moist litter and the capacity to shade out understorey species.

With the arrival of humans a few thousand years ago the landscape changed dramatically. People utilised fire deliberately, and selectively initiated fires during those times when the could do the most damage to trees. As a result open fire tolerant landscapes became grasslands and savannas while the closed forest types were replaced with more open forests with grassy areas, ideal for game.

With the removal of the Native Americans fire suppression of trees has also been removed. This has been compounded by deliberate fire suppression techniques which allow fire sensitive species to grow in ares that have been subjected to fire for many millenia. As a result what we have now are a range of communities in transition between one sate and another. This often results in what appear to be devastaing fires. The fire sensitive species establish, but before they can establish a self-protecting stand a fire destroys them. However that particular forest type would not have existed even a few hundred years ago.

It’s pretty hard to know what the natural vegetation type would have been in any area of North America. With a few exceptions, primarily in the NE USA the forest types that currently exist bare only a passing resemblance to what existed pre-Europeans. Trying to divine what is natural is impossible. Even the Yellowstone example quoted by Chronos is artificial. A combination of historical photographs, chronosequences, pollen and soil carbon sampling techniques tells us that most of Yellowstone was originally far less densely timbered than it is now, and that most of the forest is less than 400 years old.

9

There is also a good site you can find by searching at pbs.org

10

I am on a national incident team and we just returned from our 14-day stint managing a forest fire.
Every summer the weather gets very hot and dry around here, and because of this we lose thousands of acres of beautiful, mature forests to devastating fires. These fires reduce tall, rich, magnificent stands of evergreens to charred ashes and leave the hillsides barren and lifeless.

This is incorrect. Most forest fires do not devastate the forest. While there are severe hot spots that literally char everything, the fire burns in a hop-scotch pattern leaving areas of unburned trees and other plants.

I fear that with the rate at which fires consume the forests they’ll eventually all burn up and they’ll all be gone. Some of these fires total hundreds of thousands of acres.

Fire size includes larges areas of unburned forest. On “our” fire it went from about 1,000 acres to almost 50,000 acres. This includes large areas between the indirect fire line we contructed and the actual fire (with 40-60 percent slopes it was impossible to do a direct attack and suppress the fire without back-burning). Even so, now that the fire is in wilderness land, the forest plan calls for naturally-occurring fires to burn until they go out with winter snows. However, this means there is a potential the fire will exceed Southern Oregon’s Biscuit Fire of last year in size and cost. Only time will tell.

As others have pointed out, fire is part of the natural eco-system. All partisan politics aside, natural fires are allowed to burn because suppressing them only exacerbates a fire conflageration in the following years. In fact, the Forest Service testified in Congress to day that by 2035, forest fires will be mega-fires because of long-term drought and incorrect fire management.

OTOH, human-caused forest fires are suppressed because they are not natural. And when human-caused forest fires are deliberately lit, fire fighters hate to fight them. This is because it takes them away from naturally-caused fires.

Finally, a moment of silence please.

Two fire fighters died yesterday in Idaho on a fire. I do not know them, but that doesn’t matter. Their deaths will have an impact on all forest fire fighters for the next few days. It could have been any of us.

I know I will get called out again this summer. It could happen as early as Friday if national conditions warrant.
:frowning:

11

I was going to mention this before… for the sake of comparison the largest fire in U.S. history is the Peshtigo Fire which burned 3,780,000 acres in Wisconsin and Michigan. (Ironically, this was the same day as the Great Chicago Fire)

Duckster best of luck when you go out again.

St. Urho

12

If your home is near a forest that could burn your home down; there is a solution-----

Have a sprinkler system installed along your roof top. When a fire approaches your home, activate the sprinkler system which will cover your roof with water preventing it from catching on fire.

Just a friendly suggestion

(:-

13

Another point is that when fires occur naturally in areas where the fire cycle hasn’t been artificially suppressed, they often don’t crown - they just smolder through the underbrush, clearing out the overgrowth, as suggested. The healthy mature trees survive, and the cleared area around them provides a space for reseeding, which has also had nutrients replenished from the ash. So you aren’t starting from scratch to replenish hundreds of years of growth.

And in areas where fire is a normal part of the cycle, they don’t stay barren for that long. The wildflowers and grasses move in very quickly. Shrubs like manzanita and toyon follow. Around here (CA), burn areas are quite pretty when spring arrives.

14

Is a 17 year old zombie any kind of record?

15

The original inhabitants of my current house tore off the wood siding and put brick over the logs because this

was about 15-20 miles away at its closest approach.

Nowhere close. There was a thread on this but I lost it when we moved.