Forget the Republicans. How do the Democrats change internally from here?

[boytyperanma]

Reading the results is rather interesting. Blue dog democrats got clobbered. It seems that running to the right and voting with Republicans on many issues didn’t do jack to stop Republicans from beating the crap out of them.

Nearly 50 percent of conservative Democrats lost their seats.

A few notable progressive Democrats lost their seats as well but the progressive caucus only ended up losing a small percentage of their members. 4-8 percent maybe?

This headline made me giggle inside a bit Dems Who Voted Against Unemployment Benefits Soon To Be Unemployed

I understand they were much better for the Democratic party(them being Democrats and all) but on the other hand good riddance.

I believe courage of conviction does a hell of a lot more to get people elected then the actual policy they represent, so wavering on their parties beliefs or trying to appear more like the other guy does little to inspire people to vote for them.

At the same time a few Democrats like Russ Fiengold and Alan Grayson showed a hell of a lot of conviction but still lost. Did they do anything wrong? Too polarizing? Was it simply their actions gave them too much attention and in response they were out funded to a point competition is moot?

In the wake of such loses though the blue dog Democrats are coming out and trying to claim more power in the party. Sure they got thrown out left and right as unelectable but that makes the remaining ones even stronger?

Heath Shuler now says he should be the minority leader, because he’s a blue dog and can work better with Republicans. My opinion is I don’t care how conservative you claim you are as a Democrat, the Republicans are not going to work with you. He can work for them sure, but that’s not exactly a leadership role.

Pelosi has done a hell of a job fighting for her party and I don’t even think she did anything wrong. Courage and conviction she has. She can keep her post as far as I’m concerned, but would it be better or worse to replace her with someone less polarizing?

The Republicans have worked and spent very hard to make Pelosi a band Brand name to the country as a whole. Is the Pelosi brand bad enough she should step aside? I think the Democrats would be flawed in removing anyone the Republicans shout down because that simply allows them to pick off people one by one. I could understand Pelosi stepping aside simply because that spotlight is a very hot light to stand under, sometimes it might just be best to get out of it for a while to prevent your own burn out.

I think the idea of a blue dog leader is moronic, so who would be willing to take that heat in the progressive caucus? After 2 years in that position I think aspirations beyond the house would be dead for them.

Do the Democrats keep chasing the Republicans to the right? Do they maintain where they’re at? Do the go to the left and reestablish themselves?

[Blalron]

@boytyperanma

I believe courage of conviction does a hell of a lot more to get people elected then the actual policy they represent, so wavering on their parties beliefs or trying to appear more like the other guy does little to inspire people to vote for them.

I agree completely. The modern Democratic party has completely lost its balls. They don’t stand up for themselves. Could you imagine Barack Obama saying the following:

@President Franklin D. Roosevelt

For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up.

We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace–business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me–and I welcome their hatred. [emphasis mine]

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

Neither can I. The Democrats have utterly lost the ability to speak in moral terms. They just aren’t comfortable using moral language like “the forces of selfishness”, that FDR used so effectively. Fox News and the GOP commentators have them pissing their pants in fear about using any language about “class warfare.”

[Der_Trihs]

@boytyperanma

Nearly 50 percent of conservative Democrats lost their seats.

<snip>

I understand they were much better for the Democratic party(them being Democrats and all) but on the other hand good riddance.

It’s debatable if they were “better” in any meaningful sense. Just how useful are “allies” that constantly try to oppose and hobble you?

@boytyperanma

In the wake of such loses though the blue dog Democrats are coming out and trying to claim more power in the party. Sure they got thrown out left and right as unelectable but that makes the remaining ones even stronger?

They’re like ninjas, the fewer there are the more powerful they become. When only one is left he will be nigh-invincible.

@boytyperanma

Do the Democrats keep chasing the Republicans to the right?

They probably do; they seem to almost compulsively believe that when they lose it’s because they aren’t Right enough - never because they are too far Right.

[Squink]

@Der_Trihs

It’s debatable if they were “better” in any meaningful sense. Just how useful are “allies” that constantly try to oppose and hobble you?

Yeah, bad democrats make democrats look bad. Some of those dudes were to the right of Nixon!

[gonzomax]

McConnell just repeated his mantra ,defeating Obama in 2 years is our goal. He and the bawling Buckeye Boehner , said they will run the government now. They will dictate what happens to healthcare. They will set policy.
I thought the Dems had the Senate and executive. But why the hell should Obama treat them as any thing but enemies? It is well past time for the Dems to tell the Repubs to fuck off and go to the people.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Health Care is already passed, and repeal is not a possibility regardless of what the Republicans tell their idiot voters.

The Democrats need to stop being pussies and at least get their OWN base back. Pandering to the tea baggers doesn’t work. They need to find some balls. They need to go out there and fuck somebody in the face for once. Let’s see some blood on the walls.

[foolsguinea]

I nominate Der Trihs for the new leader of the party.

(Er, I posted without seeing Dio’s post. I don’t mean face-fucking people. I mean strong, non-religious moralism.)

[sleeping]

I like only a few Dems in the Progressive Caucus lost, but the Blue Dogs were slaughtered.

Also:

House Democrats that ran on fair trade platforms in competitive and open-seat races were three times as likely to survive the GOP tidal wave than Democrats who ran against fair trade. The GOP tsunami obliterated many candidate-specific features of the midterm contests, but trade, job offshoring and/or government purchases of foreign-made goods were a stunningly persistent national focus of midterm election campaigns, with 205 candidates campaigning on these issues. A record number of 75 Republicans adopted some fair trade messaging as well, 43 of whom won their races. More than sixty races became “fair trade offs,” where both the Democrat and Republican ran on fair trade themes.

Funny how people don’t well respond to free trade talk these days…

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@foolsguinea

I nominate Der Trihs for the new leader of the party.

(Er, I posted without seeing Dio’s post. I don’t mean face-fucking people. I mean strong, non-religious moralism.)

Six of one…

[John_D_Adamo]

Honestly, someone like Der Trihs would be a welcome change from the limp-wristed pussies we have now. And it’s got to be someone with political clout- I know a Kucinich-type would never hold real power. It really is too bad that Obama is going for the bipartisanship route again after Republicans basically told him to go up a tree on every progressive bill (health care which echoed the 1994 Gingrich plan, very minor credit card reform, tobacco industry reform, etc). Doesn’t he know that these people are purposefully not cooperating so that nothing gets done and then they can run/win elections on Democrats nothing getting done?

[Onomatopoeia]

@John_D_Adamo

Honestly, someone like Der Trihs would be a welcome change from the limp-wristed pussies we have now. And it’s got to be someone with political clout- I know a Kucinich-type would never hold real power. It really is too bad that Obama is going for the bipartisanship route again after Republicans basically told him to go up a tree on every progressive bill (health care which echoed the 1994 Gingrich plan, very minor credit card reform, tobacco industry reform, etc). Doesn’t he know that these people are purposefully not cooperating so that nothing gets done and then they can run/win elections on Democrats nothing getting done?

I don’t know. I’m beginning to think Obama’s not as smart as I thought he was. How many times do you have to put your hand in the fire before you realize you’re going to get burned? Apparently, too many times to count.

[foolsguinea]

This is why we need an atheist. Obama’s a convert to Christianity, & apparently he takes it more to heart than those of us born into the church. He’s still trying to forgive Brother Mitch McConnell “seventy times seven” times.

[Tamerlane]

@boytyperanma

Reading the results is rather interesting. Blue dog democrats got clobbered. It seems that running to the right and voting with Republicans on many issues didn’t do jack to stop Republicans from beating the crap out of them.

My

[Tamerlane]

@boytyperanma

Reading the results is rather interesting. Blue dog democrats got clobbered. It seems that running to the right and voting with Republicans on many issues didn’t do jack to stop Republicans from beating the crap out of them.

My quasi-educated speculation is that most Blue Dog Democrats were in competitive swing districts to begin with and got swept out with the red tide. I suspect if they had all been progressives they A.) wouldn’t have been elected in their districts in the first place and B.) they would have lost in this election by much larger margins than they did ;).

But I’d welcome correction.

[sleeping]

@Tamerlane

My quasi-educated speculation is that most Blue Dog Democrats were in competitive swing districts to begin with and got swept out with the red tide. I suspect if they had all been progressives they A.) wouldn’t have been elected in their districts in the first place and B.) they would have lost in this election by much larger margins than they did ;).

But I’d welcome correction.

Somewhat true, but not the whole story–see the article I linked to regarding politicians’ positioning themselves against free trade.

[John_D_Adamo]

@Tamerlane

My quasi-educated speculation is that most Blue Dog Democrats were in competitive swing districts to begin with and got swept out with the red tide. I suspect if they had all been progressives they A.) wouldn’t have been elected in their districts in the first place and B.) they would have lost in this election by much larger margins than they did ;).

But I’d welcome correction.

I agree. In a lot of these orange/red districts in which Democrats were unseated two days ago, a progressive would’ve gotten destroyed. The only reason a Dem had a seat at all was because he/she was a blue dog and very moderate with even some right wing views mixed in for good measure. (Although, yes, the free trade issue as cited by sleeping was part of it too.)

Still, however, that doesn’t mean the majority leader of the party has to be a wimp. The Democratic party needs to amp its game up and play dirty- otherwise the Republicans will keep bouncing back every two to four years no matter what. I hated seeing that even with 59-60 votes in the Senate and a huge House majority Democrats were still being held hostage by the Republican minority.

[BrightNShiny]

I’ve completely given up on the Democratic party. On the issues I most care about, they are actively opposed to my positions and are equally bad, if not worse, than the Republicans. On the issues that are the next level of importance to me, they are completely ineffectual.

From now on, I will only vote for a Democrat if there is a progressive running. If not, I vote Green. And I will only donate to progressive PACs. No donations to any Democratic party organization. I might make a donation to an individual politician if he/she’s a progressive.

[BrightNShiny]

@Tamerlane

My quasi-educated speculation is that most Blue Dog Democrats were in competitive swing districts to begin with and got swept out with the red tide. I suspect if they had all been progressives they A.) wouldn’t have been elected in their districts in the first place and B.) they would have lost in this election by much larger margins than they did ;).

But I’d welcome correction.

I don’t have a correction, per-se, since we’re all speculating. My reading leads me to believe that the Democrats hate Dean’s fifty-state strategy, and rather than trying to expand and strengthen the party on a nationwide level, they’re quite happy to let Democratic party infrastructure wither and die except in places they deem worthy.

For reasons I can’t understand, Obama also seems to have let his own GOTV operation from the 2008 campaign wither away in a similar fashion. So, we have no fifty-state strategy anymore and no Obama operation anymore, and a bad economy. It doesn’t surprise me that a lot of Democrats got swept out in marginal districts.

[marshmallow]

@Der_Trihs

They probably do; they seem to almost compulsively believe that when they lose it’s because they aren’t Right enough - never because they are too far Right.

Obama and the Dems are relieved they can blame the Reps now. They’ve been having to invent some very interesting excuses for not doing what they said they’d do, or anything that anyone remotely on their supposed political side would do given that opportunity. Now they can get down to real business. Good old ratchet effect.

[BrightNShiny]

@marshmallow

Obama and the Dems are relieved they can blame the Reps now. They’ve been having to invent some very interesting excuses for not doing what they said they’d do, or anything that anyone remotely on their supposed political side would do given that opportunity. Now they can get down to real business. Good old ratchet effect.

Somehow I think they’ll keep blaming Jane Hamsher, Glen Greenwald, Koz and a bunch of other progressive bloggers and activists who have relatively little influence on the media narrative or on policy issues. Hell, they’ll probably show up here to pin the election loss on the OP.