I wish. More likely they’ll ignore the election results, ignore the polls and convince themselves yet again that the problem is that they aren’t conservative enough. And then be surprised yet again when people see no point in voting for a fake Republican when they can vote for a real one.
If the Dems want to win elections they need to learn how to lie. And I’m not talking about fudging their service record. I’m talking about blatant, astonishingly transparent, shockingly anti-reality lies. And then, when they’re called on their lies and shown absolute proof of their error, they need to keep repeating the lies. Again and again and again and again and again. And refuse to speak to any reporter who will ask for evidence to support those lies. They need to be able to say the sky is green with a straight face. And more importantly, they need to be able to say that All Americans believe the sky is green with a straight face, and say it over and over so many times that people get tired of thinking about it and just go along with it so they can get back to Facebook already.
Because that shit works. Republicans have convinced people that up is down and black is white. Dems need to study their tactics, and copy them, or prepare to be the permanent minority party.
I’m not saying I support that plan, because it kind of goes against what being a Dem is about. But if they want to win, I don’t see another way. Nobody is interested in exposing the Republicans’ lies, and the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.
I wouldn’t say they need to lie to the degree that the Republicans do but they need to man up, learn how to play down and dirty, have the courage of their convictions, and formulate and stick with a message.
The need to develop a coherent strategy for selling their accomplishments to the nation, stick to that in the face of opposition scaremongering and mischaracterization (okay, fucking lies), and make clear their goals to solve the countries problems over the next 26 months, and they need to regularly broadcast, drumbeat and chest-thump when gains are made and milestones achieved, correcting course as needed.
They need to not be afraid to call the Republicans out when they’re being wrong, obstinate, dishonest, obstructionist and destructive, and use strong and evocative language to do it, and be undiplomatic if that’s what it takes to be heard.
On January 20, 2009, the President needs to call a press conference and address the nation on network and cable TV, walk up to the podium, grab his balls and declare, “This shit is over, this is what’s going to happen from here on out,” and lay it out. That message needs to be conveyed to the Democrats, the Republicans and the people.
Just kidding about the “grab his balls” part of that last paragraph. Sort of.
That also includes outlining succinctly and often what part, as the economy inevitably rebounded in fits and starts over that 26-month period, just exactly what part this administration will have played in that recovery.
Most of all, we need to re-learn how to put the Republicans on the defensive.
Yeah, cause the reason liberals just got their asses kicked is that they didn’t spend enough time calling their opponents bitch, sluts, witches, whores, and so on. If you guys keep harping about how Republicans are demons that have risen from the ground to eat good little progressive babies like you have for the last decade or two then eventually you might win.
Or, perhaps you could take a look at the time you did win. ‘Hope and change’ guys, not ‘insults and fearmongering’.
Good thing noboby’s done or suggested those things, isn’t it.
For a moment there, I thought you really were calling for restraint.
That’s the kind of speech that might have worked well two years ago. But what some Dems don’t seem to understand, the people don’t want a country that is as far to the left as Obama, Pelosi or Reid might want. Wrong or right, the people do not want it. The more this is ignored, the fewer Dems we’ll have being elected. Especially now that the past two years have given people a glimpse of what the left would do if left to their own devices.
I think it behooves both parties now to make sure they work together to get some things done. The Reps have no mandate, as far as I’m concerned. The only mandate that was delivered is people standing up, pointing to the current leaders and saying , “Not THAT!” The Reps get a second chance here after Bush. If they blow it, I will be disappointed and pissed, but not surprised.
I think what a lot of folks don’t get is that while Democrats/liberalism is a big city thing, conservatism is what most rural and smaller communities usually go for.
Democrats, who tend to live and surround themselves with like minded folks, end up thinking that all liberals, and all Democrats, are just like them.
They aren’t. In fact, I’d be willing to say that a small majority of them aren’t.
Everyone screaming their heads off about how the Democrats need to get MORE proggressive, MORE liberal, are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Moderation from both sides would be nice, but the Republicans seem to be strongly opposed to that. I’m hoping that if Obama and the Democrats appear to be at least TRYING to be bipartisan, TRYING to co-operate and work with the Republicans, and the Republicans are seen smacking that hand down, then the idealouges on the right will lose the stranglehold.
I’m hoping for it, but I’m not gonna hold my breath. On eithe side.
Bullshit. You would have been correct if you had said that the people don’t want a country that’s as far left as what the fucking Republicans have told them Obama, Pelosi, and Reid want. But really, people have no fucking clue what Obama, Pelosi, and Reid want. They think Obama wants to implement Sharia law and take over health care so he can personally death panel kids with Downs Syndrome.
More bullshit. It’s only given people a glimpse of what the Republican liars have told people they will do if left to their own devices. Like turn America “socialist.”
It behooves the Republicans to continue to obstruct everything and blame Obama for it. They are already falling all over themselves to remind people that Obama is still in charge.
I meant January 20, 2011.
Tristan, are you saying you haven’t seen the Democrats trying to work with the Republicans in a bipartisan way at all? Or rather, don’t you think they have and been rejected over and over but nobody paying attention to who’s not trying to be moderate?
Dopers have not repeatedly done childish insults?
Note: All are threads active within the last day or two. Only one is from the Pit, the rest are all fine examples of liberals debate tactics here in the Great Debates or the 2010 Election sections.
So I repeat, perhaps it’s time you guys take a look at how you won over the non-die hard partisans before. ‘Hope and change’ guys, not ‘insults and fearmongering’.
No, that’s the way the Republicans tend to talk actually. Democrats are much less likely to call their opponents by sexual insulting terms or accuse them of supernatural evil.
Nonsense. The Republicans ran on a psychotically delusional version of what the Democrats are like, not on anything connected to reality. And it was mostly the less “liberal” Democrats who got thrown out. Nor for that matter are the Democrats even “the left” in any meaningful sense.
No. The Republicans are interested in neither “getting things done”, nor in working together. That is exactly what the Democrats have been trying for years, and it has never resulted in anything but the Republicans getting what they want and the Democrats getting nothing in return for it.
The only ones of the those quotes that even comes close to the insults you listed were, well, by Der Trihs being Der Trihs; Onomatopoeia stipulated to the word “evil” in order to go on to severely criticize the Democrats, and Shot From Guns, despite having a right to feel disappointed, has a persona she’s trying to maintain.
Wanna try again?
And even Der Trihs being Der Trihs occasionally gets it right.
Ah, so although they said those things, they aren’t “True Liberals”.
Thanks for mischaracterizing what I said.
Where have I seen that tactic before?
No; “they” didn’t say anything resembling “calling their opponents bitch, sluts, witches, whores, and so on”. Nor are accusations the same as insults; when I say that the Republicans don’t care about the welfare or safety of the country I don’t say that as an insult but as a flat statement of what I feel their motivations are like.
Oh, it’s just that the Dems didn’t communicate their ideas well enough. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
See above. Also, the fact is that while Obama and Co. are not socialists (and our country already does have some socialistic aspects), they want a more socialist America than we’ve had or most people want. Dems deny this at their peril. Which is fine with me.
Maybe. It is up to Obama, Reid, and Boehner now. With pressure on the first two to make sure change happens and is visible.
“More government,” “more socialistic,” aren’t these nice generalizations? How about this:
Do you want the shadow banking system to continue without meaningful oversight?
Should health care be affordable?
What restrictions, if any, should be placed on the sellers of health insurance to make sure they deliver?
These are answerable as themselves, but if you try to turn it back into, “too much government,” you’re avoiding the actual issue. I was raised a small-government GOP type; but I’ve learned to say, “You know what, more government isn’t so bad, let’s see if it’s useful in this case.”
So saying “the republicans may be evil…”, just laughing at the plan the republicans put forward instead of actually discussing or debating it, mocking peoples religions, claiming one party is actively seeking to destroy, or that entire threads labeled ‘Fuck you…’ are perfectly normal and polite discussion? Wow, no wonder liberals got curb stomped.
Oh wait, sorry, perhaps that was impolite phrasing. Let me rephrase that in a way that is clearly considered acceptable debate around here. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA dems helping the economy. snort. Riiiiight. hehe. Man, those Dems may be evil, but at least they’re funnier than republicans. But still, too bad dems achieved their plan to bankrupt the country and drive unemployment up near 10% in the two years it took America to wake up. Fuck you, dem voters.
Also, let me also repeat I am independent. I hate Glenn Beck as much as anyone on this forum does, and for the same type of crap I’m pointing out dopers doing. I also believe Fox could best be described as like retards drawing pictures on the wall with their own shit. However, when I look around here, all I’m seeing are people who still want to smear crap on the wall, just in a different pattern. I’m suggesting is that the internal change of the Democrat party, perhaps, should consider pulling their diapers up and stop flinging more turds than monkeys defending their territory.
And that’s it for me. If you, or others around here, honestly can’t see how how vile the shit dopers are spewing is, or why that attitude might be part of the dems losing, then it probably really is a good thing voters just spanked dems and sent them to their room. They can come downstairs and eat dinner with the rest of the family if/when they learn how to act civilized.
An “independent” who talks like he/she is working for Fox.