Former MLB pitcher Roy Halladay dies in plane crash

[PastTense]

When former Major League Baseball pitcher Roy Halladay died in a plane crash in November, he had amphetamines, morphine and the sleep aid zolpidem in his system, according to an autopsy report.

Halladay, 40, died from blunt force trauma with drowning as a contributing factor, according to the Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner’s Office. The retired All-Star was flying his personal plane when authorities said it crashed into the waters off New Port Richey on Nov. 7. The National Transportation Safety Board is now investigating.

But it was the drugs found in the pitcher’s system that concerned Dr. Bruce Goldberger, a pathologist and director of the University of Florida Health Forensic Medicine center.

Autopsy: drugs found in MLB star Roy Halladay's system after plane crash

[BlankSlate]

I think Halladay is an easy choice for the Hall of Fame. The voters need to move away somewhat from accumulation and focus more on peaks, especially for starting pitchers and players with shorter careers. For ten years, Halladay was one of the five best pitchers in the game. I don’t think Verlander has quite equalled that yet.

[Munch]

@BlankSlate

For ten years, Halladay was one of the five best pitchers in the game. I don’t think Verlander has quite equalled that yet.

Hmmm… I’m not sure what 5 pitchers you’d put ahead of Verlander from 2006-2017 (tough to pick a 10 year peak when that 12 year stretch is so solidly consistent). Halladay is in there, but his career ended in 2013. I’d rank the dominant pitchers of that era as such:

Halladay
Verlander
Johan Santana
Cliff Lee
Felix Hernandez
Bumgarner
Clayton Kershaw (who didn’t break out until 2010, and is already a HOFer)
Sabathia

That’s a rough look, probably biased by intro year, and might need someone to run WAR or ERA+ totals to show me where I’m completely off-base. But Verlander seems to be easily top 3 in his era.

[BlankSlate]

I was looking at their peak seven years (WAR7)

Halladay - 50.6
Verlander - 43.5

0r WAR10

Halladay - 63.1
Verlander - 52.3

Verlander is a great pitcher and I expect him to be in the Hall someday. My only point was that Halladay was even better at his peak.

[RickJay]

@BlankSlate

I think Halladay is an easy choice for the Hall of Fame. The voters need to move away somewhat from accumulation and focus more on peaks, especially for starting pitchers and players with shorter careers. For ten years, Halladay was one of the five best pitchers in the game. I don’t think Verlander has quite equalled that yet.

I’m of the opinion there aren’t enough pitchers in the Hall of Fame. ElvisL1ves suggested this in another thread and, looking at the numbers, I agree they are underrepresented. Pitchers constitute only about 30 percent of Hall of Famers, which seems a bit low to me.

By WAR, Roy Halladay is the 139th best player in major league history, and it’s obviously not just through accumulating a lot of good but not great years. By that measure he is the 41st best pitcher in major league history, and I’ll bet no one here would have guessed he was that high until I wrote it. I sure didn’t.

I am not personally of the opinion that WAR is precisely correct; I am not convinced that Halladay’s career 65.6 WAR proves he was a greater pitcher than Dennis Eckersley (62.5) or that he wasn’t quite as great as Kevin Brown (68.5) bur I do think it’s GENERALLY right, and being 41st on that list, plus having an impressive peak, to my mind makes him an absolute no brainer.

To extend the conversation to Justin Verlander… a year ago I would have said he’s only a marginal candidate so far. But now, honestly, I think he’s a no brainer, too, or very soon will be. WAR ranks him as the 72nd best pitcher in Major League history - again, that means there are fewer pitchers above him than there are pitchers in the Hall, and there’s not enough pitchers in the Hall. Verlander also has a Cy Young, an MVP Award, a World Series ring and an 11-6 record in the playoffs. I think it would be absurd to not put him in the Hall, even if he doesn’t do anything great from here on out.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

I saw this on the AP just now: Report: Roy Halladay was doing stunts when plane crashed and he had lots of drugs in his system:

Baseball Hall of Famer Roy Halladay had high-levels of amphetamines in his system and was doing extreme acrobatics when he lost control of his small plane and nosedived into Tampa Bay in 2017, killing him, a National Transportation Safety Board report issued Wednesday said.

Halladay had amphetamine levels about 10 times therapeutic levels in his blood along with a high level of morphine and an anti-depressant that can impair judgement as he performed high-pitch climbs and steep turns, sometimes within 5 feet (1.5 meters) of the water, the report says about the Nov. 7, 2017, crash.

The maneuvers put loads of nearly two-times gravity on the plane, an Icon A5 Halladay had purchased a month earlier. On the last maneuver, Halladay entered a steep climb and his speed fell to about 85 miles per hour (135 kph) . The propeller-driven plane went into a nosedive and smashed into the water. The report says Halladay, 40, died of blunt force trauma and drowning.

The report does not give a final reason for the crash. That is expected to be issued soon.

[Leaffan]

Well, shit.

[notfrommensa]

I don’t understand why these investigations take so long. Nearly 2.5 years since the crash.

What if there was some sort of foul play involved? Like someone juicing his Red Bull or something similar.

[garygnu]

The report does not give a final reason for the crash. That is expected to be issued soon.

I think I’ve got a pretty good idea of that.

[N9IWP]

Full report here:
https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20171107X60614&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA

Supporting documents here: (feather analysis – Double-crested Cormorant (Phalacrocorax auritus))
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=63653&CFID=42709&CFTOKEN=4944b3c02c238aee-1B5BF235-5056-942C-92EF7F5C4484A1C2

Brian

[Dead_Cat]

I wonder if he would still have got in the Hall had the drugs thing been known at the time?

[Jackknifed_Juggernaut]

I thought that the drug thing was known a long time ago. The new information is that he was doing the tricks.

[Munch]

@Jackknifed_Juggernaut

I thought that the drug thing was known a long time ago. The new information is that he was doing the tricks.

I don’t remember any, but I could be wrong. Maybe you were thinking of Jose Fernandez?

[RickJay]

@Munch

I don’t remember any, but I could be wrong. Maybe you were thinking of Jose Fernandez?

Here is a report from two years ago:

Autopsy: Roy Halladay had 3 drugs in his system during plane crash

[Dead_Cat]

Thank you for correcting my ignorance. Nearly everything I know about baseball, I learnt here - apparently I just missed post 41 of this very thread.

I suppose the BBWA didn’t have a problem with the drugs here, since they evidently were not performance-enhancing.

[Munch]

The BBWAA (and much of the public) is very selective about which performance-enhancing drugs they decide they’re going to have a problem with. Amphetamines were in rampant use throughout the 70s and 80s, and most certainly had a profound effect on performance, but absolutely no one from that era is given gruff about it. (But this all probably better suited for another thread.)

I feel terrible for Halladay’s family. People struggle with drug use all the time, and it’s always tragic. They likely knew about it then, and now they have to relive it as the public relitigates it.

[RickJay]

@Munch

The BBWAA (and much of the public) is very selective about which performance-enhancing drugs they decide they’re going to have a problem with. Amphetamines were in rampant use throughout the 70s and 80s, and most certainly had a profound effect on performance, but absolutely no one from that era is given gruff about it.

But no one really noticed it at that time (it was before the 1970s, too) and those players have mostly had their shot at the Hall of Fame. A few are still on the ballot. Well, one I know of.

So here is a good baseball trivia question; who was the last MLB player to appear in a major league ballgame who played in the 1980s?

Omar Vizquel

I feel terrible for Halladay’s family. People struggle with drug use all the time, and it’s always tragic. They likely knew about it then, and now they have to relive it as the public relitigates it.

Well, the drugs in his system were all drugs you can get at a pharmacy, so for all we know his family didn’t realize there was a problem.

I think it’s still likely the primary cause of death was a rich guy buying an airplane he was not sufficiently qualified to fly in the situation he chose to fly it in. It’s an old story, I’m afraid.

[Xema]

@AP article

The maneuvers put loads of nearly two times gravity on the plane.

This amounts to saying that these were low- to moderate-stress maneuvers. Essentially every aircraft worthy of the name can comfortably handle 2g.

The final one - high-speed impact with the water - was obviously different.

[Magiver]

@notfrommensa

I don’t understand why these investigations take so long. Nearly 2.5 years since the crash.

What if there was some sort of foul play involved? Like someone juicing his Red Bull or something similar.

There is usually a preliminary report that comes out early and then a final report much later. It sounds like he pulled 2 G’s in a low speed pull up and stalled it into a spin. There was zero chance of recovery.

I’ve owned a plane that didn’t have enough elevator surface to stall in normal flight. It would just descend. But if deliberately pulled up hard you could induce a stall. About the only way out of it is to use rudder to rotate the plane nose down in a maneuver called a wingover. It’s an aerobatic maneuver and Halladay would not have known to do it.