Formula One: The 2009 Championship.

The Game Room
41

Really can’t make heads or tails from the happenings Down Under today; other than what we already knew, which is that the Brawns (Virgin) are in a different class. That was made perfectly clear not only by Button’s pole to finish dominance but augmented by Barrichelo’s – albeit aided by the Kubica/Vettel mishap. Dumb, Kubica, dumb. – second place finish. It simply defies all logic that a driver with a broken front wing from T-1 manages to complete his first full stint without having to pit, never mind mind staying competitive.

As for the rest of the field, again, Trulli’s podium finish from last row highlights the advantage the diffuser 3 have. Sure, arguments can and should be made that Red Bull (with Vettel for my money the next superstar in F-1) have the best package out there – add the ‘trick’ diffuser to their car and all else being equal, they are even better than Brawn.

Random thoughts.

1-Exciting as the race might have been on first sight, there are clearly huge problems that need to be addressed yesterday. As I posted before, the width of the front wing (as wide as the car itself) and the fact that drivers can’t see them from the cockpit will almost inevitably lead to the kinds of incidents we saw at the start. Clairvoyance not needed to realize as much.

2-KERS, in current deployment means exactly zilch as the advantage of using it is directly countered by the free use of ballast in cars without it. Unless it provides a larger boost (or allowed for longer use than the mere 6.6 secs per lap as per regs) I see no reason to keep it in place.

3-Yes, Kubica and Vettel proved that they can be competitive without either the trick diffusers or KERS. But on the whole, looking at their average lap times it’s clear to see they were in a different league from the Virgin Brawns (I foresee endless jokes about that pairing).

4-Kudos to Hammi for keeping his cool and doing the very best with what he had. OTOH, credit as well to Button for a perfectly controlled drive from pole – not something he is used to – and Trulli for getting podium from last row. Can’t say who the man of the race was.

5-Tires. Bogus. I realize FIA asked Bridgestone to make their compounds quite different from one another. But it’s simply absurd to have a tire (supersoft) that only last two to three laps till is basically worthless due to graining.

Right. Badly in need of some ZZZZs. More if and when I wake :wink:

Quarzt, I did mention in the OP that live comments can be posted here. I just don’t think we have enough of a fan base to open threads for each and every race. If most posters agree I’ll ask a mod to add ‘Spoilers’ to the title – if not, splinter away. But I do plan on posting during or immediately after races on this one.

Not being confrontational but rather reiterating what I said in the OP.

Night (morning?) all.

42

A very entertaining race.

My favourite part:Both Ferrari drivers failing to finish and Lewis finishing in 4th (maybe moved to 3rd by a stewards decision).

AndThere are so many cars that could have actually won today, t was refreshing. Raikkonen, Kubica, Vettel and possibly Trulli could have won. Five different teams competing, hopefully McLaren can improve to make it six. I expect Ferrari and McLaren to pull ahead after the first 4-5 races but I wouldn’t put money on it.

Can I add my voice to the request that we have open spoilers? It makes things easier to follow and worked quite well in the Football thread.

43

I’d forgotten what a circus they could be. Get the safety car out there? No rush. Bring the safety car in? No rush.

I won’t say what I really think, but it rhymes with “clusterduck”.

I thought the Kubica/Vettel incident was a result of that, too. It looked like the first point of contact was Kubica’s right rear tire with the left end of Vettel’s wing. A narrower wing and maybe they get away with that.

44

Got to say also that having become used to and familiar with James Allen, I was annoyed and underwhelmed by his BBC replacement on the commentary we had. I appreciate that the rights have moved to the BBC so things have changed, but this guy didn’t seem to connect with Brundle the way Allen did, and his explosive "b"s everytime he said the word Button (every ten seconds) was practically harming my speakers.

45

It should be noted (my final spoiler box unless specifically asked), with regards the 3rd position stewards enquiry:Hamilton has moved up to 3rd, Trulli was given a retrospective 25 second penalty for overtaking under the safety car. He span off the road under the safety car, Hamilton passed him (legal) then Trulli overtook him to regain his place.

46

No need for spoilers, if someone opens a thread called “Formula One: The 2009 Championship” and then complains about spoilers, they’re probably not intelligent enough to be on this board in the first place.

Well, I’m really glad I made the effort to get up early (even though it was another hour earlier, effectively, due to the start of BST). Very entertaining race, particularly Rubens’ start and the Vettel/Kubica incident. Agreed about the extreme slowness in getting the safety car on and off the track - ridiculous.

RedFury, I probably know much less about KERS and its effect than you do, but it seemed to me it allowed some overtaking manoeuvres to happen that would not have happened otherwise. And I think the tyres do make for interesting tactical possibilities. I think we should give both systems a few more trial races before condemning them. It was evident that some drivers (Button and Hamilton come to mind) were much better at preserving the supersofts than others.

Great result for Hamilton although he was a little lucky, he really showed his class in his driving and his pre- and post-race interviews I think. While I was clearly incorrect to think there may have been a possibility of them feigning slowness, I don’t think it was as bad as feared. If they can develop the car effectively in the next few weeks, there’s no reason Lewis can’t challenge for the championship again. But again, we’ll see - it may be the track just suited McLaren.

I thought Jonathan Ledgard did a decent job as commentator, nothing special but very consistent and knowledgable.

47

Well so far it seems as if we agree on the issue of spoilers, including live race comments. Makes sense to me.

Anyway, a couple of responses and comments with a bit more perspective and knowledge from after-race articles and interviews.

Robot Arm, I forgot to DVR the race thus I can’t comment on the exact point of contact between the two. I will say that the reason I called Kubica’s move “dumb” was due to Vettel’s progressively evident lack of pace due to tire graining. So although Vettel himself took the blame for the incident, Kubica simply had to wait just a tad more for a clean pass. Of course, you could argue as well that Vettel didn’t have his thinking cap on either as he wasted some very valuable points with his faulty defense.

BTW, Vettel’s been hit with a ten place grid penalty for Malaysia for continuing to ‘race’ on a damaged car. Ouch!

KERS and supersofts.

Dead Cat, you’re right, we can’t really make conclusive statements about either until at least Bahrain. However, based on what we saw in Melbourne and some of the pressers I’ve read, it appears that the difference in tires is rather bigger than what FIA intended. Certainly seems like a highly specialized tire, best used for short stints with a light car and, preferably, when track temperature is at its highest. From that perspective the only car that seems to be ‘gentle’ on them is the Brawn (on top of all their other advantages). Both Ferraris started well on the supersofts, but both also quickly suffered from graining. As for Hammi, yes, I won’t disagree that he ran a very good race – regardless of whether one thinks Trulli’s penalty was fair or not. It also seems that the McLaren has the best active KERS system ATM and if what Dennis said is true (that they might be able to retrofit the DD diffuser come China – if ruled legal in Paris of course) then they could be in good position to make the jump from midpack. OTOH, Ferrari is in a bind as their whole rear design is not amiable to the retrofit – so their are going to have to rely on pace alone for the time being. Which won’t be easy either as Red Bull and Sauber (Kubica’s KERSless car anyway) look to have the edge there for now.

Of course, once again, these are only general impressions from the opening race and in the topsy-turvy world of F-1, they could be far from reality. For instance, Alonso – who, over the years I’ve found to be rather honest in his appraisals – said that even if he wasn’t happy with their pace nor did he find KERS to make any difference, also qualified said statements by saying that Melbourne’s conditions (bumpy & windy) were natural enemies of their design. Which could well be true of some other teams.

In closing, only one thing remains constant, and that’s that come Sepang, the Brawns will very much remain the standard bearers. The rest of the teams have quite a bit of catching-up to do.

Come Barcelona, if they remain so, we might have a short season – in terms of declaring a champion that is. OTOH, the rest of the teams could very well have a fascinating championship of their own.

But I am hoping to be very wrong on these two points. Which of course, would only be par for the course for moi. :wink:

48

How exactly does the KERS come into play in a big accident? How do you discharge this system? I think I heard 200 Amps? Thats a shocker! What do you do with that in a “Kubica in Canada” -type accident? Just let the driver die while waiting for the charge to drain? I’m sure they have something in mind, but they ain’t telling us!

Afterthoughts: Fucking Ferrari! Get with it! What? Luca cut your budget for the Chrysler Buy-Out?

After the Edit: I give Kubica 99%. Sure, Vettel could have backed down, but why? He was running second. He gets 1% for being a human.

49

And I would like to thank the participants in this thread for the best F1 discussion ever on this board in the many years I’ve been wasting my time online!

Heres to wasting much more! :smiley: Let’s keep it up!

50

Not an F1 fan but I actually tuned in for this race. Starting at 11PM here on the West Coast is perfect for me. Don’t quite understand everything yet, but I’ve tuned in in the past and have been rather impressed.

51

I finally finished watching the race. After accidentally spoiling the winner for myself by reading the blurbs on podcasts I was downloading, I wanted to see who was going to share the podium. I finally started to get a good feel for when drivers were going to overtake through a corner about halfway through the race. So I was excited when I saw Kubica closing inside Vettel… and then BOOM! BMW bits all over the racetrack and Vettel on three wheels. I just kept saying, “Holy crap!” over and over as I watched the replays from multiple angles.

Definitely a good introduction to Formula One. I started to understand the ideas behind tire and fuel strategy a little better. The former seems to have been made more important than in the past by widening the gap between tire classes. Are they running the same tire compounds in Malaysia this weekend?

52

This is my understanding of it so far: The total energy stored by the KERS is 400kJ at a rate of 60kW (a watt equals 1 joule/second). The system has a terminal voltage of 300V so it could, at least on paper, reach 200 Amps in operation but that’s assuming a perfect conductor. In order to discharge at that rate in a crash they would need a short to ground (which would bypass the driver as long as he’s not in the ground path) or an explosion which would release the energy all at once. I don’t know anything about how they would prevent the explosion risk but in an industrial setting you would discharge a static charge like the KERS with a stick like this. I’m not sure what F1 is planning to do but I did read that they outfitted the marshals with 1000V rated gloves; my experience with those gloves is they are only as good as the care you put into them, a tiny pinhole renders them useless. BMW had a mechanic receive a shock so there is a very real risk in working around them. If they had an enclosure that would allow it to dissipate most of it’s energy to ground if the enclosure were compromised that might be enough to protect the driver but I haven’t read yet what precautions they’ve actually taken.

And thanks for the podcast recommendation History Geek it’s a very good one.

53

Hamilton gains 15 places during the race :cool: - wait until he has a competitive car!

And perhaps Kubica and Vettel should think about having 14 points total before the corner a few laps from the end and 0 immediately afterwards. :smack:

54

You certainly hit the nail in the head with that comment. Tire compounds and the difference between them, might yet prove to be the biggest issue this year. Besides being slicks, all of them are softer than last years grooved tires – hard, medium, soft, supersoft and likely grooved intermediates and rain tires. And no, it won’t be the same as Melbourne as Bridgestone’s going with hards (as the Prime tire) and softs as the Optional. Remember that both have to be used for at least one stint.

Now, I’ve been walking the proverbial tight-rope in this thread, between bringing more posters/fans into the sport and showing my displeasure with many/most FIA rulings. In this case, I believe I’ve already shown my disdain with what I think is an artificial rule to make the cars more even. Why? Because if using what appears to be a faulty tire (i.e., one that’s very limited in scope and has little to no advantage in using it) the whole thing becomes an artificial rule – a tire that simply doesn’t work very well on purpose – that simply brings chaos and not strategy in to the GPs. It actually undermines strategy if anything, as no car, as things stand now will be able to go on a one stopper.

Having said that, I still believe (hope) in F-1’s ability to self-correct and that tires will and/or should not become the biggest factor in determining winners and losers. Obviously they have and always will be part of the whole package we call “strategy,” but I believe having such a huge difference between compounds is more of a gimmick than a choice of strategy.

Sepang start times, also a source of controversy due to their new late starts to capture European audiences – twilight racing (plus the very real p[possibility of monsoon-like conditions are no fun for anyone)

Qualifying: 5:00 A.M. EST

Malaysia GP: 5:00 A.M. EST

More as the race approaches – lot’s of articles on the diffuser 3, both positive and negative. Glad to have more and more people interested in the sport. Remember please that no question is too dumb and the only object here is to enjoy the season, dissect it, and hope for the best.

Night all.

55

I have to be in work at 10am (BST) this Sunday, which I believe is exactly when the race starts - rubbish! Hoping I may be able to get some streaming going and it won’t be busy.

56

April fools’? Don’t think so if only because I’ve been reading about the incident before – and the source for the article is a German publication. It is, however, more proof that FIA either love controversy and/or are totally inept:

FIA to re-open Hamilton/Trulli inquiry

– bolding mine.

Rather messy start to the season.

57

Yep, continuing their grand tradition of not allowing a result to be truly known until the week after the race, the FIA have decided to reinstate Trulli and disqualify Hamilton for providing “misleading evidence” to the stewards.

While this may or may not be justified, it does rather make you wonder why you bother watching the races, when the final positions bear only a loose relationship to the order in which the cars cross the line.

58

F1 needs to sort this out. I’ll watch no matter what but they’re only losing viewers with this farce. They should extend the gap between the end of the race and the podium by 30 mins or so, the stewards should then go over any controversial moments. Once the drivers are standing on the podium, that should be that. If they later discover something serious they can punish the driver in the next race.

I don’t really have a problem with Hamilton being punished if he did lie/mislead. His punishment should have been a 10 place penalty in the next race or even disqualification from the next race IMO.

Lets take football as an example. Sure, penalties are sometimes given in error but the goal still stands. It’s an injustice but no fan wants every game result to be subject to a post match review. If a player does something terrible and the ref didn’t see it; he’s given a retrospective red card but the result is still set in stone. That’s how it should be IMO.

59

Indeed. Otherwise every promotion/relegation issue would end up being decided in the courts. Imagine the chaos if Sheffield Utd had succeeded in getting their relegation to the Championship overturned because West Ham played Tevez when he was ineligible. Sometimes you have to just accept that life’s a bitch.

60

As much as I dislike many of FIA’s actions and also adding that this particular one could have easily been made on race day as all the evidence was there, I also have to say that Hamilton is a piece of work – never mind McLaren’s woeful attempts at defending the indefensible.

PENALTY IMPOSED ON DRIVER NO 1 LEWIS HAMILTON AND COMPETITOR VODAFONE MCLAREN MERCEDES

– highlights mine.

WTF? I think just about every F-1 fan had read Lewis’ presser where he clearly stated that he let Trulli by on team orders. Sure, they were being extra-careful after what happened in Spa last year, but come on! How can you deny what’s all over the press?

Beyond that, there’s this little thing called “radio communication” between the drivers and their teams – and surprise surprise, it’s out there for all to hear after the race!

FIA links to both in their above press release.

Plenty of dumb to go around in this one, but certainly not just on FIA’s end.