Fraudulent Elections in Iran

In this article Roger Simon gives a summary of recent activity:

He includes a link to an anti-government demonstration in Iran on Friday. And there are more links at Instapundit.

My belief is that we should act aggressively to help the people of Iran to overthrow the current regime. Could we discuss this? Also if anyone believes the elections were clean I’d like to hear that point of view.

My plan has always been to bombard the country with cheap satellite dishes, tuned to pick up a signal that includes Farsi-dubbed James Bond movies, episodes of Baywatch and miles upon miles of porn.

I doubt that trying to overthrow the government would do anything but make it look more legitimate in the eyes of the Iranian people.

It’s been a continual complaint of moderates in Iran that even the appearance of American support undermines their credibility with Iranians generally. Any American involvement would probably be counterproductive.

Overthrow the current regime? Absolutely not. It’d just end up a big mess like Iraq was. No more nation building! The United States has been meddling in the affairs of the Middle Eastern countries for far too long. Unless Iran is attempting to exterminate its citizenry or create a nuclear weapon, the U.S should not get involved in Iran’s political affairs.

It wouldn’t be the first time the Khomeini faction has put up implausible election numbers. If they control the counting, they can say whatever they want.

I wonder, OP. Back in 2000, when US elections appeared to be in part “fraudulent”, not only to the international community but to Americans themselves, would you have appreciated another country to interfere in any way ?

Let them sort out their own elections their own way.

I also think we should help when the will of the people is ignored.

However, as much as I dislike the current Iranian president I remember seeing recent polls that showed that the opposition had lower levels of support.

And every time I checked for the polls in the past I got unsourced reports saying that “unofficial polls suggested” a close race. :dubious:

Abbas Barzegar, a graduate student in religious studies at Emory University does mention that fraud was possible but unlikely:

What sort of voting irregularities have been documented, and on which scale? I wouldn’t be surprised of a rigged election, but I’d like some cites before I accept it as truth.

Who’s “we”, Plan B? What aggressions are you personally planning on doing?

I don’t mean this in a sarcastic way, but I think that is exactly what they are doing. But it does sound like you’re saying that at some point - whether or not we agree on when it is - you would support overthrowing the regime.

To answer the first question…I was thinking of say “Should the US…?” but left it more open to participation from others. How about if I say "Should good people who are educated and know about the benefits of democracy and are aware of atrocities and have resources to spare…?

In terms of the second question I really don’t know enough about tactics to discuss it intelligently. Should we bomb them or summon their ambassador to the White House and and scare the bejeezuz out of him? I honestly don’t understand how diplomatic sanctions work. That’s why I left that open.

But I will at least endorse Bryan Elkers’ plan. I’d donate money to that in a heartbeat.

If citizens of some other nations, or even some governments, chose to do something educational about democracy and free elections, I think that would’ve been pretty cool. Even though I voted for GWB I would have welcomed them, maybe even participated a bit.

Sure, another war is just what we need. When you say “we” I take it that you will volunteer for the front line then? Or by “we” do you mean other people than you?

Thanks, a bit of context helped. :slight_smile:

Personally I’d let the young people of Iran sort things out, and when they finally throw out the fanatics (and perhaps it has started BBC NEWS | Middle East | Ahmadinejad re-election sparks Iran clashes ) and take control of their own country the West should be there with a firm handshake and a hearty and honest welcome. Intervention, particularly a military one, before this will delay the inevitable for decades.

From Andrew Sullivan:

Ah, yes, of course. So if say, Iran had “acted aggressively to help the people of the US overthrow” GWB and get Al Gore (or whoever) in the presidential seat, you would have welcomed it ?

Somehow, I doubt that.

I completely disagree that the United States should intervene here. If it can be shown conclusively that election fraud occurred, we should take all non-military means available to push Iran towards adopting the legitimately elected government, but given the circumstances surrounding our entry into the Iraq conflict, it would just reek of opportunism if we were to take serious action now.

Let whatever protests are in motion take their course; they sprung up organically. An Iran that comes to its own conclusions about what sort of government they are to have is one that will have higher affinity for our democracy than an Iran where we interfered with their governance unduly.

Juan Cole:

Can the Supreme Court hearing Mousavi v Ahmadinejad be far away?