Like babies? I don’t think anti-natalism is too popular around here though.
I have set the bar low for the value of existence also, and the fact that bacon exists to me is the best sign of the existence of a supreme being and my free will. Without free will I would not be able to consider not eating the bacon which I will eat. That may not make much sense unless you are eating bacon at the moment.
** You cannot justify those actions morally, by an appeal to arbitrary "advancement.**
I think I can. I’m unimpressed by claims that at the current average level of Human intelligence, any given person can understand, analyze or judge the behavior of an omniscient being. I remain certain that the motivations and concerns of an eternal superior being are far above your comprehension (and mine, too.)
An actual all-powerful entity, who found it necessary to eliminate large numbers of people (which, for the moment, I will grant might happen) would simply eliminate them.
And you know that from watching I Dream of Jeannie? You actually don’t know that, there’s no way to know. I’m happy for you that convincing yourself that you can understand a supreme being and His thought processes makes you feel good about yourself, well informed, or at least perceptive. Enjoy.
Never mind; I don’t see any value in perpetuating the highjack.
You were destined to say that.
D…e…s…t…i…n…e…d
Aw, that’s an oldie!
“The Presbyterian said: ‘It has been decreed from all eternity that we should exchange pulpits today.’ The Methodist replied: ‘Oh, really! Then I won’t do it,’ and turned and rode back to his own church.”
No idea if this is a true story of just a fun one.
If someone who understands about what child rearing is required, and has the resources for child rearing, has a child and makes it suffer then we can condemn him or her. Since we are neither omniscient or omnipotent we get a pass on not being perfect.
God gets no such pass. I don’t know why some of you people worship god while holding him to be less accountable than an unwed teenage mother.
It’s based on a circular argument. Since God is perfect, then everything he does, no matter how ostensibly evil it seems, is “good.” What is the definition of “good?” God’s perfect will.
(And…doggone it, this is still a highjack. We need a new thread on “God’s Perfection.” This is “Free Will.” “Origins of the Universe” is two doors down, just past the vending machines and bathrooms.)
Omniscience has a direct bearing on free will, omnibenevolence, not so much. I’m kind of fuzzy on where omnibenevolence even comes from. The God I learned about in Hebrew School had fits and changed his mind all the time. Various non-Biblical poems implied an all-good God, but nothing that really counted.
I was about to go in there, but a powerful explosion scared me off.
I think that you’ve made a good argument. Even if GOD were right 99.99% it’s more accurate than the entire human race is ever right. However, the small percentage of not knowing 100% would change the entire image given to GOD “PERFECTION”…something that a lot of societies thrive on. If people knew that there was even a 0.01% chance GOD lacked in perfection, it can leave room for a new “GOD” in town with a new story…and established Christianity has no time for competition. An all knowing GOD sounds more powerful and can offer more security for their people. If we continue to believe that PERFECTION is coming back for us, we will continue to get out of bed and put in long shifts at the job to keep our societies functioning. If there was doubt, maybe we would start rebelling more and attempt to create a system where more justice outweighed cruelty. But no, our reward is coming, those beautiful streets of gold and wonderful sounds of harps…If GOD will take care of our enemies, there’s no need for us to fight…
GOD is in spirit form and the spirit form can’t feel what the human form can….soooo GOD experiences life as a human through us (the reason he/she gets out of bed, lol)…the astral body has to get a human body. Also, I believe that is why there is so much evil…the spirit just wants to experience in human form, evil or good. To understand good, evil must exist. The only problem is, once evil is discovered, we then have the choice to rid of it, but we don’t. People will disagree with me, but then some will agree…that’s just the way it goes. So give the creator a little break huh, he/she never wanted all the responsibilities given to him/her.
I’ve never completely agreed with this. I grok the concept; without differences in points of view, sophisticated intelligence has no meaning. We can’t spend all our time doing higher mathematics; now and then, we have to have a debate over something meaningful.
But as an absolute law… I dunno… A different universe, built on different laws of physics – say, laws of plenitude rather than laws of conservation – might be able to embrace good without having to suffer from evil.
Well, he/she ought to appoint a human advisory committee, and just maybe listen to us. Putting Jesus into fleshly form was a pretty good step in that direction. (Letting him be crucified…not so smart.)
If God were only right 99.99% of the time he’d have to hire a Six Sigma consultant to get his numbers up. We make transistors at a better quality level than that!
(Inspired by a GQ thread - I kind of agree with you.)
In logical terms, the argument for perfection destroys practical the idea of the deity. When a thing is perfect, it is complete, there is no more to be done. Were the deity perfect, it never would have created everything, for it would have no motivation.
Perfection is death. The only thing that allows to universe to exist and progress is the fact that it is out of balance, a thing in perfect balance is static, and there is no sensible reason to believe that that rule should somehow not apply to the superbeing. If it is perfect, it is of no value to us, because we are of no value to it. It is perfect or it is alive, but it cannot be both.