After reading this thread I decided I had some questions.
Since this topic deals with God and religion I figured that this forum was the best place for it.
On to my questions. (Note, these questions are probably pointed toward Christians and Jews. I am not sure about Islam or some other religons)
First, God seems to be presented as ‘All knowing and All seeing’. In other words God knows everything. At the same time ‘Free Will’ is brought up to explain the actions of us humans. My question is this, since God is ‘All knowing and All seeing’ doesn’t that kill the idea of ‘Free Will’? If God knew the outcome of everyones choices when he created the Universe isn’t God responsible for what happens? God didn’t have to start the Universe but he chose too. If God is ‘All knowing and All seeing’ then when he set the initial properties of the Universe he knew all the outcomes in advance. If God knew the outcome in advance then ‘Free Will’ is a myth. At the same time God would condemn certain people to hell since he knew they would sin.
Second, how is it that God is to be thanked when the outcome of a problem makes us happy when God could have stopped the problem from occuring in the place?
I am really looking forward to any answers that do not rely on the standard ‘We do not know the will of God’ bit.
as far as I can see, free will is a totally preposterous concept.
If you try to break it down into a mechanism, you will go quite bonkers. Its not an ‘action’ that we can do. Its not something that can be put into words (ie I can explain how to jump, how to chew gum, but never how to decide). Not the greatest psychologist, biologist or doctor can tell me what it is that makes me choose vanilla over chocolate.
free will is a lie perpetuated by a society that relies on its “existence” for without it, we could have no elections, no courts of law, no cause and effect.
As for your second question, I think you already have a pretty good idea of the answer. God is a great psychological tool for many people who don’t feel in control of their lives.
To answer LP: think of free will like Schrodinger’s Box: although actions up to this point have led us to a conclusion, it is impossible to know all actions leading up to this point. If we could look at every atom of random radioactive element in the Box, we could determine if the cat was alive or dead. We can’t. Ergo, just as the cat is alive and dead until we check and find out, the future is good/bad/indifferent until we ‘open’ it.
Free will does not necessarily clash with determinism. This synthesis is called “compatibilism”. Also, if God is all-knowing, this can be said to mean he knows all that can be known. By giving us free will (in the incompatible sense), neither he nor we would know what we are to do. He can still be all knowing.
Regarding the good things / bad things thing, it is my opinion that confusion results from conflating atoms with reality. What is real is what is eternal.
not necessarily THE answer but something to ponder-
God’s foreknowledge & our free-will works like this- Someone stands on a hill, seeing that two cars, their drivers so far not seeing the other cars, are going to wreck. That foresight does not cause the wreck.
To the extent it applies to God, I would say a better description would be that the person on the hill radios the cars, warns them, and even tells them the path to take to avoid the collision, but leaves it up to them to follow the directions.
Nissanites 2:14 “He whoever be on a collisional course shall steer to the left and only to the left shall he steer”
Ford 3:6 “And the Lord sayeth: ‘proceed on a straight course and have Faith in Me’”
Oh yeah you must follow both these directions for if you don’t , not only will you die in a horrible crash but I will punish you for eternity as well.
What!! You turned right??? Burn in Hell, you sinner!
Your just punishment for using that free will thing I gave you.
Because then, they wouldn’t have free will! God made the world the way he wanted to make it; it is his playground, not ours. Therefore it is our responsibility to follow good advice over the radio when it is given to use.
To claim that our safety is the responsibility of somebody else is to claim we bear no responsibilty for our own fate, and hence, no free will.
Imagine, for a minute, that you were the person on the hill and you owned the land the two cars were driving on. Were you obligated to imagine every possible scenario whereby someone
would trespass on your land, and by so doing, put themselves in danger? Obviously not. God is not obligated to help humanity just because he has the power to do so.
*You may choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice*
Free will is relative to the human sphere. I can say I choose to fly to the moon on my own thoughts, but it isn’t bloody likely to happen.
But, if God was able to rebirth you into Heaven or New Earth or place you higher on the wheel of life, why would random events leading to your death even be so bad?
Well, since we are sticking with this metaphor, let’s be a little more accurate.
The man on the hill makes a nice safe road, but along the way people choose, by their own free will, to dump trash in the road and dig potholes in the road and so the road becomes treacherous. The man on the hill, seeing the road’s condition, sends a guide to show the way to navigate the road, and says that if you will simply ask the guide, he will even navigate the road for you so that you don’t have to do your own driving.
It’s your choice whether to use the guide, but is it the man on the hill’s fault if you choose not to use the guide?
You scoff at the idea of following directions, but what you are really saying is that it is okay to exercise your free will not to follow the man on the hill’s advice, but if you don’t follow his advice, the consequences are not your fault. I miss the logic in that.
