Rather than further annoy Czarcasm in this thread, I’m taking his suggestion and starting a new one here.
Some believe that Christianity and Freemasonry are incompatible, the Catholic Church and the Church of England for example, not to mention all the troubles in England as well as the conspiracy theories that abound.
So the debate I hope we can start is whether or not this should be so (I grant up front that the Pope is certainly free to forbid his flock whatever he wishes).
My stance at this point -
Nothing in Masonry attempts to replace any religion, men of all faiths are welcome, religion and politics are not discussed in Lodge, and there is no “path to salvation” taught.
That’s a terrible start, but it’s the best I have this late. Please hijack and introduce tangents
Thanks, Bob, for taking my suggestion as the Readers Digest parody that it was. My brother and father were buried, with full RCC rites, in a (mostly) Masonic cemetary.
Which left me with three gravesites to sell to “Deadwood” fans. Just 35’ from Wild Bill, Calamity Jane, and Deadwood Dick, if you know anybody interested…
I prefer to think of myself as both a threat and a menace.
In any case, there is no problem between the Anglican Church and Masonry. The Catholic thing is sort of one-sided. They are opposed to us, not visa-versa. In any case, some people think Disneyworld is un-Christian, so you have to take a lot of people’s opinions with a grain of salt.
Indeed, as noted even by a very Catholic pamphlet I have somewhere, the founders of the 1717 Grand Lodge of London, the first official lodge of Freemasonry as we know it, were Anglican Christians. However, I recall reading an article in which AofC Rowan Williams expressed some concerned about the Lodge’s hold on the CofE & English society.
Atheism isn’t (imho) a “faith” any more than gravity. Although I suppose there could well might be religions without a supreme being, I don’t know how or if they’d be weeded out.
Saw the National Geographic Freemason show last night, not very impressive but they did touch on Scotland (I think) wanting to register all Masons working in government jobs. The other side of the pond seems to be more worried about us than most Americans (excepting Jack Chick types)
And I’m still waiting for my spine-dwelling Baphomet lizard.
Heh, Anti Masonic hystery is overblown. I find it interesting that one of the first opposition parties in the US was the anti-Masonic party after the Morgan affair.
I also like that our choices for this thread are ‘threat or menace’, never, ‘a bunch of nice blokes getting together to have meals, help each other out, give to charity and talk about philosophy.’, no, ‘threat or menace’, those are the choices.
Cake or death!
Also, the RCC isn’t that big up on Masonry anymore. Catholics cannot be Masons, but it’s not like any sort of open hostility between the two groups.
In the United States a lot of the communities that ended up becoming towns and later cities were formed by Masons, particularly in California. Masons tend to be very civic minded.
Though, what do I know? I don’t have a flashing 666 or spinning Pentacle on my website to prove my authority on the subject.
Recommended reading: ‘Who’s Afraid of Freemasons?’ by Alexander Piatigorsky
Well, at my husband’s Lodge, all the men are supposed to take turns cooking. Having experienced my husband’s cooking firsthand, I’d have to go with menace.
That was about as close as I ever manage to get to humor. I try and try and try, but no one gets my jokes.
Catholics can be Masons, but Masons can’t be (good) Catholics -
And, according to this, tolerance of others beliefs is heretical (which I feel is a greater condemnation of the author than of the Craft). I suspect this is the primary problem other religious groups have with Masonry is that we don’t exclude everyone who disagrees with them.
I s’pose I could throw down some out-of-context Albert Pike quotes to stir the pot a little, but I’ll refrain for a while.
Isn’t it more like
‘a bunch of nice blokes getting together to have meals, perform some rituals, help each other out, give to charity and talk about philosophy.’
?
Ernest Borgnine is a 33-degree Scottish Rite Mason. I like the idea of McHale being in league with the Devil. (I also like the Google ads in this thread.)
The basic RCC opposition, (which is basically a statement that Catholics need to avoid Freemasonry without any explicit condemnation of the Masons), has three sources: the primary one is that the RCC regards the statements in a number of Masonic declarations regarding spirituality to indicate that is is equivalent to a “naturalistic religion,” (don’t argue with me over the accuracy of that viewpoint–I’m just the messenger)*, the next is a serious concern, (again, I will not attempt to justify the position), that an organization that demands utter secrecy for some of its actions could hypothetically instruct a member to perform a sin that could not even be revealed in Confession, and the third (much smaller in 2007) point is that the Masons provided both literature and bodies for the general anti-clerical movement that swept Europe between the 1830s and the First World War.
From the late 1960s through the late 1970s, there was a general movement within the RCC to reduce the hostility. (I know at least one Mason who entered the church during that period. In fact, he was the business manager of the Detroit seminary and was admitted to the church at an Easter Vigil held in the seminary.) However, with the general “tightening” of theology that was introduced after the election of JPII, the various more conciliatory statements were set aside.
I make no claim that the Masons are a “religious” organization, but the general opinion of the church is that the Charges of 1717 and 1738 do reflect a religious philosophy that is in conflict with Catholic teaching. This is no call to Crusade with a (latent) desire to destoy Masonry, but a simple declaration that some principles of Masonry are not compatible with RCC doctrine, just as some principles of various Protestant groups are not compatible with Cathoilc doctrine.
The RCC does not consider Freemasonry to be a threat (now that anti-clericaliasm has mostly died out) and certainly does not consider it a menace.
I’m sure that it did not help, particularly among the mid-level bureacrats of the Vatican, but the pulling back from acceptance was already under way before the Ambrosio bank scandal broke and I don’t think the Vatican would issue any theological remarks based on the actions of a lodge that was illegal according to Masonic rules.
It is not physically impossible, but I would find it unlikely that the RCC would tell a Catholic in Toronto that he could not join a Masonic lodge based on the illegal actions of a renegade lodge in Rome.
My brother and father were buried, with full RCC rites, in a (mostly) Masonic cemetary.