French Presidential Election, 2017

It increasingly seems that the French took one good look at what happened around the world in 2016 and decided they could do… well, perhaps not worse but sillier.

Where to begin ?

Until recently, the French political spectrum used to be neatly divided in two, with the Socialists (PS) on the Left and Gaullists as a form of pragmatic Right (not the traditional anti-republican, racist Right). Further Left, you had the Communists who held a lot of power in the post-war decades but who never really stood a chance of winning a presidential election, especially after they fell behind the Socialists in the 1970s. At the Far-Right, you had the Front National, founded by Jean-Marie Le Pen in 1972, at first a motley crew of xenophobes, negationists, Catholic fundamentalists as well as various provocateurs and street thugs. Until the mid-80s, the FN’s electoral performance was merely a blip, if that. It started to change around 1984. In 2002, Le Pen stunningly reached the Second Round of the Presidential Election against Chirac. The latter won in a landslide. Starting with Sarkozy in the mid-2000s, some prominent Gaullists started flirting dangerously with the FN ideas. In the meantime, Jean-Marie Le Pen’s daughter Marine succeeded her father as head of the FN. Her rethoric may be less provocative, leading to big electoral successes, but the party remains rabidly anti-immigration, anti-EU and socially extremely conservative.

So, for this election a normal face-off would have been President Hollande (PS) against a Republican (Gaullist) candidate. The latter was expected to be Alain Juppé, an extremely experienced politician who used to be seen as Chirac’s heir (the former President famously described Juppé as “the best among us”). However, he was somehow unexpectedly defeated in the Republican presidential primary by former Prime Minister François Fillon. Upset number 1.

In December, President Hollande announced that he wouldn’t run for reelection, a very unusual move but not exactly a surprise. Hollande has the appeal and energy of wet toast and, as President, he often looked like a pathetically awkward kid in adult clothes and was widely unpopular. Still, upset number 2. That opened the way for younger Socialists to throw their hat in the ring. Relative unknown Benoit Hamon beat Hollande’s natural successor Manuel Valls. Upset number 3.

Then, there’s Emmanuel Macron. A former member of the PS, he defected to found his own party. Its social-liberal platform is still unclear. Some kind business-friendly socialism, it seems.

And of course, Marine Le Pen is the FN candidate. At the opposite end of the spectrum, there’s Jean-Luc Mélenchon. So, 5 main candidates.

Until the last few weeks, it looked as though the second round would be a modernized repeat of 2002: Fillon vs Le Pen. Except that the former, who used to make a big point of being the scandal-free, ethical and hard-working candidate has seen his bid increasingly torpedoed by the so-called"Penelopegate" that revealed that he had paid his wife and children very large sums from the public payroll for years for very little work. He refuses to step down although his aides have started leaving in droves and Republicans are begging for Juppé to replace him. The latter has said he was “technically ready” but would only do so if asked by the whole party (he’s probably still butt-hurt of being passed over twice, in favour of Sarkozy in 2007 and Fillon now). Recent polls show that Fillon would not reach the Second Round. It would be Macron vs Le Pen. Upset number 4.

And this is where it gets serious. You see, in 2002, Socialists voted massively for Chirac in order to prevent Le Pen from becoming President (“Vote for the crook, not the Nazi” IIRC). But the legacy of the Sarkozy era is that Republicans are much more to the Right than 15 years ago. In other words, it is unclear that the Republican voters would reciprocate and may very well be tempted to prefer Le Pen over Macron, a former Socialist with an unclear program.

Sorry, I forgot to add that I’ll be away for a couple of days and will probably not post until Monday. Of course, feel free to add your comment until then.

Macron is the best chance. Filon is dead and should withdraw.
Macron at least represents some kind of modernization of the PS tendency to enter the 21st century, which for the French politics is perhaps the best chance at the modernization. Although the idea of the change in the electricity production to reduce the nuclear part is pure imagination.

Mélenchon is the most bearable. He is pretty awful.

What, he is merely a young Hollande. the France has suffered enough under the backwards looking PS.

Macron is not what the French would recognise as a socialist. He is somewhere nearer the liberal end of social democracy, or in effect the belated French version of Tony Blair, whose appeal he is fairly consciously trying to project. There’s quite a lot of “Third Way” transcending old divides, getting the country moving again, and all that sort of stuff.

He has secured the backing of the small remnant of centrist liberalism (Bayrou’s Modem) that, unlike the remains of the Giscardian coalition, didn’t allow itself to be swallowed up in a broad anti-Socialist alliance, but would make a useful ready-made local organisation for the parliamentary elections that will follow the presidentials.

As a sidebar to this, right-wing xenophobe Marine Le Pen has had her immunity from prosecution revoked by the European Parliament and is now liable to prosecution under French law for inciting terrorism:
The European Parliament has voted to lift Marine Le Pen’s immunity from prosecution for tweeting violent images, a crime that in France can carry up to three years in prison.

As Le Pen, the leader of France’s far-right National Front party , rises in the polls ahead of France’s presidential election next month, authorities will now be able to pursue a case against her.

Regardless of how anyone thinks about Marine Le Pen, this should be widely viewed as ridiculous. There is a law against posting violent images to promote terrorism. The case arose when a journalist accused Le Pen of being as bad as ISIS, to which she responded by tweeting pictures of bodies of those murdered by ISIS and saying “This is what ISIS does.” Obviously she was not promoting terrorism, so the charge is bogus.

Further, if the French government did prosecute her on the matter, everyone would assume it was politically motivated and it might work to her benefit, much as Geert Wilders in the Netherlands has seen his popularity shoot up on both occasions when the government prosecuted him for “hate speech”.

My father, who has been an avid and somewhat cynical observer of French politics for a long time, says that basically everybody does this. Plush, work-free jobs for relatives are just considered a perk of being a politician.

All the political science experts have been assuring us for years that Le Pen cannot possibly win. Of course the same experts assured us Brexit and Trump couldn’t possibly win. If Le Pen does win, it might be time to start asking whether the experts know anything at all.

She is also, like our own dear UKIPpers, in trouble with the European Parliament over diverting expenses to party campaigning expenditure (and then there’s the matter of her party’s loans from Russia).

I dunno, he looks like he might *actually *be from the Left :o, unlike Valls et al. Of course, as a communist he stands about as much chance as a chocolate helmet, but hey.

Honestly, I’m profoundly afraid it might be Marine, and I might just break my own promise to myself and register to vote just to try and help prevent it.

[QUOTE=ITR Champion]
All the political science experts have been assuring us for years that Le Pen cannot possibly win. Of course the same experts assured us Brexit and Trump couldn’t possibly win. If Le Pen does win, it might be time to start asking whether the experts know anything at all.
[/QUOTE]

Not the same one.
Her father would never, ever, in a million years, have been elected. You see, he had something of Trump to him, a similar braggadoccio and snide pride - except what he was proud of was having awful ideas and being despised by the mainstream. He’d make racist jokes, anti-semitic jokes, homophobic jokes… live, on air, like it was nothing. Similarly, he was all too happy to have bona fide skinheads in his private security contingent. All part of his tough guy image.

LePen 2.0 is more careful. To paraphrase the oft-quoted Lee Atwater, she doesn’t say “nigger nigger nigger”, instead talking of “traditional values” and “entitlements” ; she doesn’t talk shit about “Arabs” but merely about them dreadful Muslims and illegal immigrants (feels familiar ?). This allows two things : racist cunts get to pretend they’re not that ; and crypto-fascists who had been cowed from showing their true colours by the risk of social opprobrium back when Old One-Eye was the party lead get to ditch the pretence thanks to the FN’s newfound respectability.
As a result, while Le Pen senior always had a solid 10-15% of the vote but never one iota more ; the spawn boasts high 20s/low 30s.

It is a strange habit you have, making summaries of that have no factual relationship with the actual discourse.

It has been years since the statement that Le Pen père could not win. It has not been said by any of the actual experts in the politics of the France that Marie Le Pen “can not win.”

Probably will not with the tendency in the France for the center to unite against the FN, but no one has said cannot for a long, long time now.

so you mean by experts, some opinion pages in the popular news papers or the morning talk show taking heads, I think your expression is - the journalists with their easy non analysis analysis.

In any case, Marie Le Pen, she is not her clumsy vulgar father and everyone knows that.

One of the silliest political decisions in a long while. This is exactly the sort of thing that emboldens Le Pen and her followers.

I expect Macron to win. Le Pen to be semi-competitive in the final round.

Juppé will not be Fillon replacement.

That means that for the first time in decades (ever?) the Republican candidate will likely not reach the Second Round. In other words, it’ll be Macron vs Le Pen. The worst-case scenario is looking a bit more tangible, I’m afraid.

I really don’t understand Fillon’s game. He has no chance of winning. His political career might be over. But on top of that, he looks perfectly willing to let his party sink with him.

And I must admit that I’m disappointed that Juppé has given up. While he was a bit too much to the Right for my liking, he was still far from the “FN-light” that the party has become since Sarkozy took over. He was the last hold-out of the original party’s ideal and the only French politician that really had the stature of a statesman in the past 10 years or so.

So? predictions for the first round?

Am i correct that things are getting more volatile, with all the candidates bunched together?

Haven’t seen any recent French polling on that.

Here’s NPR on Melenchon, who really does sound a bit like a French Bernie Sanders: Brash Leftist Candidate Shakes Up France's Presidential Election : Parallels : NPR

Yes, four within the margins of error (scroll down for a chart, and hover the cursor over each line for details):
http://www.linternaute.com/actualite/politique/1357555-presidentielle-2017-resultat-du-dernier-sondage-attention-il-revient/

But I have heard an analysis say that in asking people for their second round preferences, Macron would win against anyone else, Mélenchon would win against anyone except Macron, and Fillon would lose to anyone except Le Pen.

Based on polling shortcomings here in the US leading up to November, I wonder how many of the people offering their second round votes to “anybody but Le Pen” are saying what they mean vs. what they’re willing to have their neighbors hear them saying they mean?

Our 2016 election was also largely decided on the basis of unexpected turnout by “non-traditional voters”; folks who normally didn’t bother to vote. How much of that is likely in either round of the French election and by which candidates’ supporters? To what degree is current polling trying to account for this probability? With what success?

All questions to which I have no answers or even good musings.

Early reports showing Le Pen and Macron likely heading to the second round.

Wonder if the Anyone-but-Le Pen crowd will turn out for Macron in the run off May 7.

If I understand French politics (which I don’t) Macron is more of a center-eeking towards right sometimes candidate in the mold of a Bill Clinton. Le Pen is a far right candidate sort of like a Pat Buchanan.

It would seem like anyone but the hard right would have to hold their nose and vote for Macron, even if he isn’t the perfect candidate.

Normally, yes. But the leftists share with LePen a dislike of the EU, and this election is being increasingly viewed as a French version of the Brexit vote. That might cause the far-left to vote LePen. After all, ignoring the economic issues that they are at opposites on, they often have similar viewpoints about things like foreigners, strong federal power, etc.