Fresh Bovine flesh, and You. (Or, Vegetablariums beware) ...longish

In My Humble Opinion
1

***WARNING: Vegetarians, as much as I love, accept and appreciate you all, this post will in all probability revolt you. Viewer discretion is advised. Read on if you are the curious sort, but just remember…you’ll dream about steak tartar…

I’ll do something a little different here. I’ll post my questions first, and then you can read my rather long commentary. My questions to you, oh omnivorous dopers are,

  1. Given the circumstances, Is MrseNiGma just being paranoid, or am I really still taking a health risk?
  2. Are there others who, like me, enjoy hamburger in all it’s mushy rawness as I do???

And now;

Thanks to spogga’s sammich thread, this morning I started thinking about food again only minutes after dining on a healthy bowl of peaches and cream oatmeal. I got to thinking, “what would I really like to eat right now? Besides having my favorite sammich, what I really want is, well, steak tartar.” Lightly seasoned, slippery egg yolk and the herbed, savory ground beef in all of its juicy, raw, slimey, glorious splendor.

But it doesn’t stop there. I must admit, I like raw hamburger, period. No, I really like raw hamburger. Don’t even season it, I’ll eat it right out the package like ice cream. The smell of it twinges my nose and makes me salivate and want to watch ‘Altered States’ again. The feel of it squishing between my fingers as I’m making patties. Forget the barbecue; nothing would make me happier than having those raw, sloppy, cakes of goo sludged betwixt my buns with all the fixins’. That would hamburger buns…

Enter MrseNiGma; she won’t hear of it…sniff. So I try to sneak it when she’s not looking. The “Hey look it’s a moose!” diversion no longer has the results it used to. I’m reduced to outright brazen attacks on the skillet, or secretly nawing on a frozen ‘meat-cube’. We’ll have mexican food at least once a week and when the ground beef starts to simmer, she stands at the ready, the ever viligilant ‘meat guardian’. With spatula in one hand and fork in the other, she’s ready to poke and spatch my hand as I am inevitably drawn to that delicious, juicy mush. Like a bloodhound, I smell it and come running.

The mock battle is cutesy, I end up getting a snippet, she laughs and I don’t really get hurt. But deep inside, she would really rather me not eat it at all. Ever. She’s afraid I’ll catch a disease. But, I.can’t.help.myself.

Come to think of it, I like Lox and all types of sushi and sushimi too. Hmmm…maybe it just a ‘raw’ fetish… :dubious:

Anyway, before we start talking about Mad Cow (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), hamburger disease (Haemorrhagic
Colitis) and other e-coli related ailments, here’s the facts: we raise our own beef, have it butchered by a private, professional butcher, there is very little fat that is put into the hamburger (You couldn’t buy it this lean in a supermarket I don’t think), and he is meticulous about cleanliness with his grinders and tools. Meat grinding takes place quickly and the meat is immediately quick frozen.

Given these facts, the little lady still isn’t convinced. Even though she knows that BSE isn’t in the actual meat of the cow, and that e-coli happens from dirty grinders etc. There’s no love lost between us at all, and I know I’m having fun here, but I really am curious what others may think about the health side, and whether there are others that like it too. :wink:

2

I don’t think BSE is much affected by cooking anyway; prions are pretty durable, by all accounts.

I’d be more concerned about problems with pathogenic bacteria really - the problem is that animals are covered with shit and when you cut one up, no matter how careful you are, it is still quite easy to get some of the shit from the outside of the animal onto the meat.

Most of the time, bacteria will be a surface phenomenon though, so heating up the outside surfaces properly is usually enough, but with ground beef, the bits on the outside of the cut get mixed up with the whole thing.

I believe that it is possible to partly butcher the carcass, very briefly ‘cook’ the exposed surfaces with superheated steam, destroying the bacteria, then cut it up and/or grind it (using sterilised equipment) in relative safety.

The fact that you aren’t already dead would seem quite compelling, but there’s no doubt that you are taking risks over and above the normal level.

3

Never been one for raw beef. Raw pork sausage is tasty, though. :slight_smile:
Note: no claims should be inferred from this post regarding the nummy goodness of sausage that is not handmade by my father and lovingly smoked in the tiny smokehouse out back of the shop.

4

Mangetout, the steam process does sound very convincing. I’ll have to raise that one with my butcher. Thanks!

Gorsnak, I’ve always been terrified of raw pork, partly because of the fear my parents put in me of trichonosis (I’m sure it’s just my ignorance on the matter though) Interestingly, they always ate their beef rare though. Odd that I wouldn’t have that same fear of raw beef with all the potential nasties out there. :slight_smile:

5

Well, I’d say if your parents always ate their beef rare, then chances are you’ve been eating rare beef all your life. Which in turn means you’re either dead, or violently ill, or have built up a tolerance to E. Coli (why does that sound like a Princess Bride quote?). Since you probably would have noticed either of the former, I’d guess the latter.

That said, the same beef that doesn’t affect you could well cause MrsEniGma to become violently ill or dead. Note also that there is no guarantee you will not eventually hit a variant of E.Coli that will do the same.

Standard disclaimers: this post is worth every penny you paid for it.

6

ReBusEniGma, get thee to a good Italian restaurant and order the beef carpaccio. You will swoon!

I’ve encountered your type in restaurants where I used to cook. The order, “cripple it and throw it on a bun” was rather common.

7

I’m currently a vegetarian, but when I was a kid I ate raw hamburger anytime I could get some. It is delicious!

8

I’m currently a vegetarian, but when I was a kid I ate raw hamburger any time I could get some. It is delicious!

9

i don’t necessarily mainline raw ground beef, but i’ve been known to gleefully, errrr, “taste test” bits as i brown it in the pan for later use. i’ve also snacked on some of the outside edges of pork roasts before they’ve finished cooking. probably eaten some pork while it was still pinkish, too.

i’m another believer in the completely unproven theory that eating meats of a semi-questionable nature helps keep your digestive system on its toes and able to handle unplanned assaults, as it were. however, having said that, i have to agree with Mangetout’s observations on the extreme difficulties of keeping all fecal material from coming in contact with meat as it is being butchered, even before the grinding process. regardless of how spotless your butcher keeps his grinder, if the meat is ALREADY contaminated, it won’t matter in the least.

my rationalization of the whole deal, though, runs something like this: consistent refrigeration has only been in mankind’s history for about the last hundred years. prior to that, the preceding millenia saw people eating dried, pickled, salted or just-barely-ahead-of-the-maggots raw meat. humanity has most likely developed a minor tolerance for less-than-pristine-condition food over that timeframe. so unless it’s really starting to smell or taste bad, i’m likely to give it a go for dinner.

YMMV, of course.

10

I looked it up on the web, and I’m completely baffled at how this dish could have escaped me! It looks amazing and to be sure, I’ll be trying to find it. We have some great Italian restaurants in my area. I also printed off the recipe for it Here. I think MrseNiGma may go for this, as it is namely the raw ground beef that she thinks is satan’s flesh incarnate.

Hey, you know me!!! I’m the guy that always says, “I like it still mooing” :smiley:

Regarding those who have talked about bio-tolerance, that’s another interesting consideration; sounds like a reasonable theory. Tummy trouble is a very rare (no pun intended) occurance for me. I once ate some aged deli-meat in the fridge with no problem, but MrseNiGma felt sick to her stomach a shortly after while I was fine.

On the other hand, Taco Bell once made me so sick after eating a taco supreme that, days after, I wished I would die. I bruised my ribcage from all the dry heaving. Terrible. It was either samonella or some other food poisoning. It took me quite a while before I could walk into that restaurant again, but in the end, me and tacos…we’re pretty tight.

11

I too won’t touch raw pork or chicken but beef? It might not be 100% raw (I’ll eat it blue or cooked “raw”) but I’ll eat it whenever.

I’m Japanese so Sashimi is a treat once a week or so. The safety built into Sashimi is that wasabi kills germs, I dunno if steak sauce (if you use it) would be the same thing.

12

I confess I am another who must be removed from the kitchen when beef or pork is being cooked. My boyfriend will stand there with the spatula, guarding that precious meat from my fingers.

I’ve never heard of beef carpaccio either. I now have a new mission in life.

I’m so jealous of you, ReBusEniGma. I can’t wait to raise and butcher my own meat. :slight_smile:

13

Sigh. Beef carpaccio is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever had the pleasure of chewing.

I do love raw beef. Maybe just slightly browned to give it a little seasoning. I think the main reason I like it is that all the fat hasn’t been cooked off of it. The fat’s the best part!

14

ReBusEniGma, welcome to the world of socially acceptable raw meat. The recipe you linked to is just fine. I’d skip the arugula as a bit of puffery, but that’s just me. The demi-Mayonnaise sauce from Harry’s Bar sounds rather intriguing but what’s missing are some high quality capers. Their salty background notes are perfect for this dish. Incidentally, your earlier description of a steak tartare sandwich was anatomically correct.

Interesting Side Note: The term tartare refers to the Tatar hordes and their dining habits while on the run. When engaged in long forced rides, they would slaughter an ill performing (animal) mount and stick a cut of the meat between saddle and horse to “tenderize” it prior to consumption.

Now, all of you sushi lovers may wish to try this toothsome little treat. The next time you are cutting up some ahi (tuna) sashimi at home, purchase a small tail of beef filet and slice it nearly paper thin. Make two fans of beef and tuna on your chilled plate and accompany with the strongest possible wasabi and soy sauce dipping mix. 'Tis food for the gods.

As to food borne nasties. Since the OP is slaughtering their own beef, the fear factor is reduced mightily. My largest concern is that most large scale slaughter houses tend to grind up anything that isn’t walking straight. The addition of ground intestinal tracts and offal like that is what concerns me. Personally, I refuse to ever buy those five pound “chubs” of ground beef. Those might as well be biological warfare canisters to me. If I buy ground meat, I get a tray that has been ground from their own trimmings at the store. Individual store butchers seem to have a better track record than Moran’s and other large meat packers.

Ever since childhood, I’ve enjoyed snacking on a piece of raw steak. The trick I was taught to get the beef slices paper thin was partially freezing the meat prior to cutting it. An alternative source will be a good Japanese butcher’s counter. Look for the most lean sukiyaki grade sliced beef you can find. It should work just fine. The biggest problem is that the beef needs to be consumed immediately. If allowed to oxidize in air, the meat looses its brilliant red sheen and becomes a dull unappetizing brown color.

When making carpaccio, be sure not to use extra virgin olive oil. They suggest it in the first recipe but do not say so in the sauce composition. An extra virgin olive oil will have very little flavor. You want something a little more robust to accompany the meat. A Spanish or Greek olive oil may be a bit too flavorful, but a good quality Italian virgin olive oil should fill the bill nicely. The Parmesan shavings are optional but they do lend an excellent flavor to the dish. Use a potato peeler to get nice thin curls of the cheese.

Bon Appetit!

15

If there are any authentic Ethiopian places near where you are, try the kifto. It is the Ethiopian version of steak tartar. Make sure you specify that you want it raw as some restaurants will lightly saute it.

16

Good call, blainer. There is also a Lebanese version using lamb called kibbeh that is quite tasty.

17

Interestingly, refrigeration can be part of the problem; leave a carcass out in the sun and the processes of spoilage will take of f at such a phenomenal rate that the meat will very soon be both stinky, and unsafe to eat.

But when you store the meat at reduced temperatures, it is possible to create conditions where the growth of pathogenic bacteria carries on at a rate that is out of proportion with the rate of the degenerative processes (not all of which are caused by bacteria) - so you can end up with meat that is very seriously contaminated with harmful bacteris, but looks and smells completely normal.

18

Thanks, Zenster. I know that you’re the chef, but isn’t kibbeh cooked? Goddamn if lamb and bulgur aren’t my favorite foods.

19

I’m on total sensory overload here. I mouth was actually watering when you were talking about the sushi and carpaccio derivations. I must…must have this. I hereby do solemnly swear to try every delectable variation you have stated in this thread…at least three times. ::bows down and worships Zenster’s culinary godhood::

[embarrassment]
Thanks for the correction on tartare … I’m not usually one for typos… my apologies :slight_smile:
[/embarrassment]

badmana, I wasn’t aware that wasabi was a germ killer too, I thought it just aided in digestion! Very cool.

Gulo gulo, so I guess you don’t really need to hear that I have about 650 pounds of beef in my freezer right now, including beef sausages, steaks, roasts, ribs, fillets, and 14 pounds of fresh, spicy, chewy jerky then right? Sorry… just ribbing you. :wink:

Wait a minute; I could host one HECKOFA beefeaters dopefest at my house now couldn’t I? Hmmmmm…
[sub]::wanders off to measure how many people could fit in 3.2 acres…::[/sub]

20

Oh my…how could I forget the Kifto and Kibbeh!!! Poundage here I come!!! :smiley: