FriarTed - you fucking hypocrite

[Illuminatiprimus]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

He doesn’t like paedophiles. That doesn’t mean he’s judging them. When a bully bashes some kid’s head in its not because the bully has judged the kid as deserving it.

What a ridiculous comparison. What point are you trying to make exactly? That violence is okay when there is no judgement?

You’ve implied judgement because that’s exactly how you feel about paedophiles.

I feel what about paedophiles? Where, exactly, did I say what I felt about them either individually or as a group?

I’m willing to suggest that had you both believed in Jesus and heaven and the lake of fire that Friar Ted is hoping the paedophile gets into heaven while you, I suspect, would hope he burns forever.

I don’t need to believe in those things, I know for a fact that the rule of law and the judicial/penal system exist to dispense justice against people who commit illegal acts, I don’t need a beard in the sky to mete out justice for me. Nor, indeed, do I need to carry out justice myself as that is not my place, hence why I don’t belong to or agree with vigilante groups.

[curlcoat]

@Telcontar

I am such a Christian, as are many people I know. And, based on your level of closed mindedness and your willingness to paint such a large and diverse group of people with the same brush, I have no desire to see you. You are ignorant, and the sooner you realize it the better. I do not make broad statements about atheists, gays, blacks, jews etc etc. I imagine you would take offense if I did. Given that, you should understand why I take offense at your conduct.

I stand by my initial assessment of you.

Which is really un “Christian” of you. But then, most “Christians” get to do whatever they want in the name of God, right? Such as killing people who don’t agree with their views?

I’d be interested to hear what your response to the question in the pedeophile thread is since you appear to be defending FriarTed. His response was definitely against what the Christian religion is supposed to be about.

[astro]

Illuminatiprimus, what does your Satanic/Vampyric ethos say about the appropriate ethical posture to assume regarding pedophiles?

[Petrobey_Mavromihalis]

@Illuminatiprimus

As for this notion that we shouldn’t point out the glaring contradictions between what Christians say and what they do - I say a hearty FUCK THAT. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, no matter what it comes from, and (AGAIN) it’s made even more heinous when it’s delivered in a shroud of self-righteousness.

Sure, I agree entirely, but where’s this getting you?

A hypocrite, by definition, is not going to be that upset at you pointing out their glaring self-contradictions. They probably won’t even see your point.

Live a true and virtuous life and lead by example.

Kisses to all.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Illuminatiprimus

What a ridiculous comparison. What point are you trying to make exactly? That violence is okay when there is no judgement?

Are you ever a fucking obtuse idiot. All this thread is about your fanatical ranting on Christianity.

[FriarTed]

@Thudlow_Boink

When I read that comment by FriarTed, my reaction was along the lines of “Whoa. Dude. Such hostility. That’s not very Christian, is it?” FriarTed, Christianity’s about grace and forgiveness and reconciliation, not about bashing someone’s head in, isn’t it?

To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was just expressing the same sort of righteous anger Jesus did when he saidStill, Jesus never said that we ourselves ought to do any bashing or drowning.

No I wasn’t. I believe with all my heart that in a fully just society, murderers, sexual predators and other such criminals that prey on the weak & innocent would be eligible for the death penalty. The Voice at Sinai is the same as the Voice of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was setting forth amendments to keep an unbalanced view of Torah from allowing petty & personal vendettas to flare up into soul-corroding hatred & harmful actions. He said nothing against just verdicts imposed by fair courts adhering to Divine Law. Now, such predators are human & would be treated humanely until the time of execution, and perhaps given some time to prepare themselves to meet their Maker. Then, off they go- and I fully believe Yahweh-Jesus has delegated to human government to authority to ship them off “Return to Sender”.

A poor woman caught in adultery & brought half-clothed before a mob without a trial & with her male co-offender nowhere to be found does not set a Case Law precedent that says Jesus said we couldn’t eliminate predators from society.

Bible passages have contexts- the full context of “Judge not, lest you be judged…” is “For by the standard you judge others, by that standard you shall be judged” (paraphrase from memory). Well, I don’t rape or seduce anyone, so I’m free & clear to judge baby-rapers. Bully for them they have a good pal in our Satanic Vampire Disciple of Adam Weishaupt.

Christ extends Grace & Forgiveness, Christ also has a rod of iron to smite down the tyranny of evil men, and sometimes He gives us the aweful responsibility of using it. Amen Hallelujah.

[Illuminatiprimus]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

Are you ever a fucking obtuse idiot. All this thread is about your fanatical ranting on Christianity.

I wouldn’t class this thread as fanatical ranting, but I guess YMMV. You still haven’t made clear exactly what your point was supposed to be.

@astro

Illuminatiprimus, what does your Satanic/Vampyric ethos say about the appropriate ethical posture to assume regarding pedophiles?

Simply being a paedophile is no crime in my eyes, as the consensus is that it’s something you have no control over and forms without your knowledge. I’m in fact quite sympathetic to paedophiles as they now occupy the place of popular scorn that homosexuals held 50 or so years ago - were I born earlier I could be in a very similar situation. The difference being of course that homosexuality between two consenting adults is no harm to anyone, hence doesn’t merit being discriminated against or criminalised, whereas paedophilia is by definition an act without the consent of one party and thus can never be permitted. I feel extremely sorry for people who have desires they have no way of stopping and are made to feel by the rest of society that they don’t deserve to live. I know what that feels like it given that I was treated like shit when I was in school and on one occasion even told that I’d better watch out or I’d get lynched on my way home and burnt at the stake like I deserved.

How do I feel about people who abuse children? I say prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Do I feel a particular revulsion for what they’ve done? In cases where children are forcibly physically and often psychologically raped, indeed. But I don’t separate children from any other person who has been treated in such a way. Women and men get raped, psychologically abused and physically abused, do they not deserve the same amount of sympathy? Of course it is more tragic when it’s a child because they’re not in a position to do much about it (even more so when the person doing the abuser is a child’s parent, as statistics show they invariably are).

The Eleven Satanic statements say “Do not harm little children”, so the Satanic position is quite clear, but my feelings on this are not dictated by Satanic doctrine, simply my own thoughts.

Does that answer your question?

[Guinastasia]

@Struan

FriarTed has some seriously hardcore religious views. He also has an absolutely filthy sense of humour. You should PM each other, and make up.

Pretty much. Besides, if you want to go after religious assholes/nutjobs on the board, go find Kanicbird. You’ll find all you want and then some.

Leave FriarTed alone. (Besides, the whole thing was obviously a joke)

[Telcontar]

@curlcoat

Which is really un “Christian” of you. But then, most “Christians” get to do whatever they want in the name of God, right? Such as killing people who don’t agree with their views?

Nope, I never said that.

@curlcoat

I’d be interested to hear what your response to the question in the pedeophile thread is since you appear to be defending FriarTed. His response was definitely against what the Christian religion is supposed to be about.

I am not defending FriarTed. In fact, I have taken no position on his post either way. I am merely pointing out the excesses of Heffalump and Roo (and also lluminatiprimus, i suppose). As to the original thread, i offered a response. My view on the situation was…more nuanced than the good Friar’s.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10536016&postcount=10

[Petrobey_Mavromihalis]

@FriarTed

Christ extends Grace & Forgiveness, Christ also has a rod of iron to smite down the tyranny of evil men, and sometimes He gives us the aweful responsibility of using it. Amen Hallelujah.

See what I mean?

Give them enough rope and they just go and hang themselves. No intervention needed.

[Illuminatiprimus]

@FriarTed

No I wasn’t. I believe with all my heart that in a fully just society, murderers, sexual predators and other such criminals that prey on the weak & innocent would be eligible for the death penalty.

That’s not your decision to make. You are not lawmaker/giver/executer.

Bully for them they have a good pal in our Satanic Vampire Disciple of Adam Weishaupt.

Oh please. Because my views don’t come out of some dated book they’re suspect? I’d far rather be judged on my own words and actions (favourably or harshly) than on someone else’s views that I wave around in place of my own.

Christ extends Grace & Forgiveness, Christ also has a rod of iron to smite down the tyranny of evil men, and sometimes He gives us the aweful responsibility of using it. Amen Hallelujah.

Well fortunately we don’t live in a theocracy (try Saudi Arabia) so the rod of Christ is not used to dispense justice. Those that try to do so (e.g. people who blow up abortion clinics in the name of Jesus) should also be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[astro]

@Petrobey_Mavromihalis

See what I mean?

Give them enough rope and they just go and hang themselves. No intervention needed.

I’m not a practicing Christian but how did he “hang himself”? Christianity has a lot of different facets, and putting up with immoral, abusive behavior toward children (ie innocents) in a non-judgemental fashion is not a core tenet. As a Christian you are allowed to kill people dead for a variety of reasons. You may agree or disagree with the Christian ethos but he’s not being hypocritical or two-faced about what he perceives to be his moral duty as a Christian.

Christianity is not all about “turn the other cheek”.

[curlcoat]

@Telcontar

Nope, I never said that.

Yet you support a religion that goes to war to force itself on others? Start with the Holy Wars and work your way up (or down as the case may be).

I am not defending FriarTed. In fact, I have taken no position on his post either way. I am merely pointing out the excesses of Heffalump and Roo (and also lluminatiprimus, i suppose). As to the original thread, i offered a response. My view on the situation was…more nuanced than the good Friar’s.
[/QUOTE]

Ah. Then you are willing to socialize with homophobes, but not pedeophiles?

[Caveat_lector_1]

@Thudlow_Boink

Right. I thought that was what I said.

Your right it was. I’m not sure what I thought I read before. Forgive me. I’ve been studying for finals and my brain is a bit mushy right now.

[curlcoat]

@astro

As a Christian you are allowed to kill people dead for a variety of reasons. You may agree or disagree with the Christian ethos but he’s not being hypocritical or two-faced about what he perceives to be his moral duty as a Christian.

His moral duty as a Christian is to kill people for “a variety of reasons”? Any of these reasons worth having to become a Christian for?

[Illuminatiprimus]

@astro

I’m not a practicing Christian but how did he “hang himself”? Christianity has a lot of different facets, and putting up with immoral, abusive behavior toward children (ie innocents) in a non-judgemental fashion is not a core tenet. As a Christian you are allowed to kill people dead for a variety of reasons.

For example, adultery, which includes having sex with someone who was previously married and has been divorced. I don’t see many Christians advocating death for adulterers in the awesome and holy name of Christ the rod of God. Did you know it’s also forbidden to eat shellfish, cum on the carpet and wear mixed fabrics?

Christianity is not all about “turn the other cheek”.

That’s not what they claim when Christians try to use it to get involved in government policy (under the guise of morality) or start up charities.

[astro]

@Illuminatiprimus

That’s not what they claim when Christians try to use it to get involved in government policy (under the guise of morality) or start up charities.

OK now you’ve got me curious. Please cite some specific example of a Christian group using “turn the other cheek’” as a rationale for pursuing national political policy objectives or performing charitable work.

[Petrobey_Mavromihalis]

@astro

I’m not a practicing Christian but how did he “hang himself”? Christianity has a lot of different facets, and putting up with immoral, abusive behavior toward children (ie innocents) in a non-judgemental fashion is not a core tenet. As a Christian you are allowed to kill people dead for a variety of reasons. You may agree or disagree with the Christian ethos but he’s not being hypocritical or two-faced about what he perceives to be his moral duty as a Christian.

My point, if I have one, is that to be religious, in any form, is by definition to be hypocritical.

But there’s no arguing with belief.

[astro]

@Petrobey_Mavromihalis

My point, if I have one, is that to be religious, in any form, is by definition to be hypocritical.

But there’s no arguing with belief.

From wiki -

Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself. For example, an adult telling children not to smoke cigarettes, even though the adult smokes. Hypocrisy is frequently invoked as an accusation in many contexts.

I’m not especially religious. but if the requirement is that everyone offering opinions regarding desirable moral postures has to be a perfected example of those postures then almost all moral advice is hypocritical. and yet it is still vital to informing us about the appropriate way to regard our fellow men. Offered the choice of being a hypocrite or not acting when I see the need for a moral opinion or ethical action I’ll take my chances being a hypocrite.

[Baker]

It sounds to me as if Illuminatiprimus assumes Christians are hypocritical, and some, like Friar Ted, are hiding it but sometimes make a mistake and “out themselves.” So he catches them and leaps in, saying “Aha! I gotcha!”

What his attitude make me think of is bigoted people who use a couple of bad apples from a group and then slap their bad label on the group as a whole. For example, there are some white folks I know who point out that many of those doing hard time in our prisons are black, or non-white. So they say that people of color are more likely to be criminals. But when a white person commits a horrific crime(like a minister conspiring with his secretary to murder his wife and her husband) they’ll take the view “that’s not representative of the group(Christians, whites, or those who are married) as a whole.”

Bigots with an ax to grind, like Illuminatiprimus, don’t seem to understand that nobody can be perfect, and that Christianity is not somehow exposed as being “wrong”, or to blame, when those who profess it fail to live up to it. I’m sorry for anyone who feels as he does, they sound as if they are carrying around a burden of hate or sorrow that weighs them down with pain.

@Thudlow_Boink

Still, Jesus never said that we ourselves ought to do any bashing or drowning.

Yea, but one of my favorite Biblical stories is from the 11th chapter of Mark. With all the images “gentle Jesus” it’s eye opening to see him going all big and bad!

On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14He said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard it.
15Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; 16and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple. 17He was teaching and saying, “Is it not written,
‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations’?
But you have made it a den of robbers.”

No drowning, but definitely some bashing!