ummm… no I am not new here, who are you?
Those Fuckin atheists.
I’m listening too.
A little clarification for everyone, just for future reference…
“Fundamentalist”… those that we can usually stand (so far, Kiva’s been one).
“Fundie”… those that we CAN’T stand.
Hope that helps, you fuckers.
Now andros, I think that we (you & I) have progressed pass name-calling, so I’m not going to take this to that level, but I have to admit some slurs popped to mind when I read:
That’s akin to saying “Well, if you think that Jews get stereotyped negatively today, why don’t you stop being Jewish?”
Now, I’m not a fundamentalist by any means, but I do know that it’s a belief system, not an image. Sure, some of them a pains in the ass, and some of them don’t know what they’re talking about, but you still have to respect their beliefs. It’s just plain decency. It makes me sick when I read these posts about people who you mocked in front of an entire class because they didn’t know as much about the Bible as you. Must have felt real good. I always get a high from attacking others’ religious beliefs.
Oh, I don’t know. This board is pretty friendly towards Christians, as long as you don’t say anything that might identify you as a Christian.
Me and Jesus fuckin love you fuckface. ;)
**Andros ** thankee for rising to my defense.
{b]Kina ** You missed my point, which is understandable, as I was ranting rather than postulating.
I am an atheist, but I am not anti-religion. In fact, I rather envy the religiously-minded, as the comfort and order religion gives to life is obvious, and, in most matters, a good thing.
My best friend on this particular planet, and roommate for four years (until that BITCH ruined the best relationship I ever had by marrying him - love ya, Lisa 
) was a convert to Judaism and is now a rabbi. Another close friend is a Catholic fundamentalist (yes, they do exist). I have spent hours in debate and * mutual education * with them on matters of faith and religion.
My problem, and its a big one, is with fundies who post here, like FoG, who make ridiculous and unfounded assertions that demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge with the scripture they hold so dear, than condemn to Hell the people who disagree with them, whether or not the disagreement is unduly harsh or well-reasoned.
I agree with you that this MB has an anti-fundamentalist bias, but I am too much a newbie to know whether the bias is innate or a response to morons who don’t know the very religious beliefs they expound loudly.
An constrasting example - cmkeller and the gang I praised earlier are, in the true sense of the term, Jewish “fundies”. However, when they declaim about Judaism, they EXPLAIN, not scream. This I have respect for, and indeed I have started a few posts with the express intent of having them answer. I completely disagree with their beliefs and the very answers I try to learn from them, but I respect what they believe, perhaps because they don’t condemn me (at least to my face) for disagreeing.
If Billy Grahamn (sp?) were to post here, I’m sure some people would flame him. I personally wouldn’t - to me, his faith has always seemed sincere, and he has obviously given great thought to it. It’s people like FoG who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about who royally piss me off, and give people like you a bad name.
V.
I can only speak for myself, but I thought that FOG knew very well what he was talking about.
Rousseau said:
What twaddle! The woman was mocked because in a college classroom she asserted that the New Testament was written by Jesus himself in ENGLISH! Her “religious beliefs” were not being mocked; her willful ignorance was, and deservedly so.
More tripe. “This board” is unfriendly toward pushy, proselytizing idiots who can’t or won’t engage in any discussion of religious or moral issues without insisting that their interpretation of the Word of God is the unassailable truth. There are plenty of Christians posting to this board who encounter no acrimony from atheists, humanists, wiccans, etc. not because they hide their Christianity, but because they act like Christians are supposed to act.
I usually don’t post to the pit (not sure if I ever have, in fact) but I’ll make an exception for this topic.
No. That’s tripe. There have been a few people who have treated me with respect in religious debates (Gaudere for one). There have also been a few that have reacted very hostile with little provocation. This could be due to the more extreme/vocal group of fundamentalists who post here(I guess they forgot that we’re supposed to preach the truth with love). I also take offense to such terms as “fundie” and “Jeezer”. I find them derogatory.
Pray tell, how is a Christian supposed to act? Should they not proselytize? Sorry, Jesus told them to. How dare they believe that their interpretation of the Bible is the truth!?! What arrogance! :rolleyes:
Welcome to the Pit. Be prepared to be offended a lot here.
Pit or no pit, don’t be a jerk.
Here’s a question for you all, and I’m wondering if anybody wants to answer it for me…
If there isn’t some sort of higher power or afterlife or eternal reward, what’s the point of being alive? I’d like to think I’m going to college for some purpose other than just learning skills to lengthen my life.
Excuse my religiosity (I am not a literalist, but I am a Catholic), but does the whole universe coming out of nothingness from a quantum something-or-other sound that much more plausible than an omnipotent God creating it all? How can we prove that there isn’t a God? We can’t see what created the universe, nor do we have a clear understanding of what caused its creation. We sure as hell can’t do it in a laboratory.
I don’t like to ram my beliefs down others’ throats, but I think I’m right, and I’m going to argue that when others want to have a reasonable discussion. Alrighty, then…
Read the paragraph you quoted again, Twin. Yes, that’s good. Did you notice that the words “proselytizing” and “interpretation” were used in conjunction with other English words and phrases to yield a descriptive sentence that clearly specified pushiness and unyielding adherence to their own dogma as the chief qualities that produce unfriendly responses?
Sorry you’ve received rude and combative comments in Great Debates. So have I. In fact, I expect to see heated commentary in a debate. Fortunately, I’ve never jumped to the conclusion that it was because I’m an atheist; I just figured it was my personality that did it.
If you want to posit an omnipotent and omnipresent being that created everything, yet is totally undetectable, I do believe that the responsibility is yours to prove his existance, not ours to disprove it.
Simple enough?
Well, it’s too late at night to go too far into theology, but I’ll give it a go. Let’s start with that famous man (and God, I believe), Jesus Christ. I’ll go through the stuff I believe, and tell me where we split paths…
1)Jesus Christ was an actual person, who walked Earth sometime in the range of what we call 50 BC to 50 AD.
2)He was arrested for various crimes by a group of priests and officials who were jealous of his growing power and influence.
3)He was executed by crucifixion, died, and was put in a tomb, which was then sealed and manned by armed guards.
4)Three days later, the tomb was found inexplicably opened, with no body inside.
5)After this event, several witnesses reported seeing Jesus alive, walking and acting as a normal person would (despite some pretty nasty wounds)
6)Later, several witnesses reported seeing Jesus ascend, in full body, into the heavens.
So… if you believe all this (and I do), you’d have to admit that there was a pretty powerful force at work here, doing some rather inexplicable stuff. Even with 50-100 years of oral tradition to muddle some details, it seems that the basics of the story are there, at least to prove that some higher power is working. But it all comes down to who you believe. That’s why they call it “faith.”
(And, yes, I know that was a trite ending. So sue me.)
You know, I have encountered more hostile “Christians” in my life because I’m Mormon than I care to think about, or count. But NOBODY on this board, well at least not the people who truly count (read: Intelligent, respectful, mature posters with open minds) has ever been negative towards me for what I believe. And it’s not a secret. I have an “Ask the Mormon Gal” thread, and I’ve been known to quote from The Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants in debates. Nobody has ever called me “pushy” or “annoying.” Probably because I HAVEN"T BEEN. I’ve posted what I believe to be true, but I didn’t add “And it’s true for you too” I never even insinuated it. Well ok, I used to. But I learned quickly that that is not the way to go about things. As a matter of fact the only people who have ever been called “pushy” or “annoying” or anything else on this board, DESERVED it AFAIC.
My point is, if you don’t ask for it, nobody is going to take the time to dish it out.
Nilvedman, you haven’t been posting here long, so I will give you some advise. Your last post is really not acceptable fair for the Pit. See, in all the other forums, posters will pull their punches. They will not resort to name calling or other childish behaivor in GD, they’ll just argue it. The Pitizens have been know to be very vocal about what they don’t agree with, and usually use very colorful language to get their point across. Next time save your self a lot of time by posting things like you just did in GD. That way you will not be “insulted” or “offended” The mods over there have been known to keep a pretty tight ship, and will call posters on their language. But here in the Pit, anything goes, and usually does.
And since is the pit…
Fuck you! 
You see? A perfectly stated “witnessing” by Nilvedman. If we were in GD, this would be a good beginning to a debate. He has stated his beliefs in a clear and concise manner, and opened the floor for challenges. Again, if we were in GD, I would challenge several of the statements, but since we are not, I would just say that I respect Nil’s faith, and believe that he/she/it and I could have an interesting and educational conversation.
It’s all in the attitude. Nil’s posture is “this is what I believe, and I believe I am right”, dropping what is often added on the MB “and I can’t be wrong, and if you disagree, you are evil.”
I like it – however, we are in the Pit, so fuck you
V.
Well, some people here are full of shit.
Oh, please. I’ve seen Christians get blasted on this board for nothing more than walking into the wrong side of one of DavidB’s creation/evolution debates. “Unyielding adherence to their own dogma?” Tell me, just how brutally ignorant ARE you? You can’t accuse people of “unyielding adherence to their own dogma” just because they hold different beliefs than you (and they don’t drop those beliefs once they hear your surely compelling arguments).
And as for that little Bible-related story where the poor girl was embarrassed in front of the class: the question “Jesus wrote the Bible?” was not an innocent question. It was meant to make the girl look like a fool. We know this because when someone says “[God] said so in His Bible,” we assume that they mean he was quoted as saying “so” in His Bible. The only person that would jump to the conclusion that the person meant that God wrote the Bible personally is someone who was looking to bait the speaker.
OK. I can understand hostility if somebody is being pushy. But unyielding adherence to their own dogma? That’s something that some Christians just can’t help. I guess they can tone it down a bit at times, but if they believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God and it’s all true, I don’t expect them to give an inch in debating their beliefs.
See, to most Christians, their beliefs aren’t open to debate! However, the only place on this board that they can try to witness to people is on Great Debates. A place that abounds with atheists and skeptics, most of which demand proof (actual material “take a Polaroid of Jesus” proof) that Christians can’t give. It all boils down to faith. I believe most Christians proselytizing in Great Debates aren’t really looking for a debate. They are just trying to present the Gospel and get others saved. Maybe this isn’t the best place to do it, but it’s the only place they can.
This sounds like a Great Debates post more than a BBQ pit post. Let’s see. Shoot! Darn! H-E-double hockey sticks!
[partial hijack]
Well, if I can just get a word in edgewise here, sorry, don’t mean to interrupt the discussion of the Meaning of Life (in the Pit?).
Makes me a little twitchy, seeing Esprix accusing of boosting his own thread, people. Not likely. Boards were acting squirrelly here in the Land O’ Lincoln about that time, too. Swallowed one of my posts without a trace, never did find out what happened to it.
You may resume your discussion. Let me know what you find out, OK?
[/hijack]