Because they are not going away and cannot be marginalized. You don’t have to make your enemies love you before you can treat with them.
I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to know more of this Final Solution.
Well, on the other hand, it does give much of the racial hatred in the US an opportunity to vent openly. And such opportunities are rarer these days.
No, but you can make them fear you. Or if no other choice remains, you can make them die.
And besides, we’re not going away, either, and we certainly can’t be marginalized. How about you tell them what you just told me?
Understand something - I’ve lived with the conflict my whole life, I can keep on living with it, and so can my children. The Palestinians don’t want peace? Let them suffer. Let them suffer more than we’re suffering. I can live with that just fine. Eventually they’ll *sue *for peace… or not, in which case, they’ll just keep on suffering.
So if Hamas and Israel agree to a peace deal, and a week later a few rockets are lobbed into Israel, what does Israel do?
ETA: How on earth isn’t that anti-semitic tool Sevastopol banned yet? Amazing.
And to be even handed, DanBlather and Bosda are both fuckwits too.
It’s hard to get the negotiations underway, and harder to keep the principal actors alive long enough to remain in charge until some kind of settlement is reached. It’s worked in Northern Ireland (Fucking hell, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley sitting down for a cuppa and actually seeming to get on well together) but it took decades of back-door conversations. In NI at least there’s not much territorial dispute - the Palestinians and the Israelis need ruthless men who will agree on borders and be willing to enforce them, regardless of the wishes of segments of their own constituencies. That’s going to be hard, really, really hard. Add to this the buy-in required from some of the surrounding states and well, good luck guys.
The entire argument is fucking retarded.
We know the following.
- Israel isn’t going anywhere.
- Hamas is going to continue to be a douche bag centric organization.
- Palestinians have a valid argument.
- Jews have a valid argument.
The Palestinians need to get their shit together and put hamas down themselves, recognizing that Hamas only exists to feed the fire. Once Hamas (and the other extremist, violent factions) are put down, Palestine needs to come to the bargaining table and say “We want our land, we want it now.”
Actually, I expect that Hamas expected what it got; a greatly disproportionate response that makes Israel look indiscriminately murderous and produces martyrs, and more support for Hamas.
As for my view of the situation; I think both sides are dominated by thugs and fanatics, and I see little to admire about either. I don’t believe that either side is all that interested in peace.
The peace-loving Israeli government was forced to kill hundreds of people because otherwise a tiny percentage of Palestinians might continue to lob rockets that don’t kill or injure anyone. Obviously.
People with an interest in history often inquire how whole societies come to take part in frank evil. The studied answer is the same in each case: It begins with a story of imminent and unchangeable malevolence towards them. This is why it is important for rw Israelis to spread the falsehoods quoted above. Without that narrative it would not be possible to brutalise Israeli society and its supporters into the planned shape.
Do you mind if I lob a few rockets in your general direction? After all, they won’t kill or injure you.
Attack a bunch of people they label ‘Hamas’ and start it over again. Assuming that some Israeli fanatic doesn’t shoot a bunch of Palestinians and kick things off first. As long as both sides are so easily jerked around by their fanatics, ending the fighting is impossible.
Yeah, very productive.
Neither side really wants peace, pity the shmucks on both sides can’t just duke it out and get it over with.
Oh man, that’s really sad. There’s nothing but hate and pain and death down this road.
The key difference between the two conflicts is that the IRA never set as its goal the liberation of London. If any leading Irish nationalist had ever stated that his organization’s ultimate goal was to drive all Anglo-Saxons off Celtic soil - *any *Celtic soil - not only would there be no peace, but the Brits would still be in Dublin.
Actually, not many were killed or injured, as compared to the results of the Israeli attack. That’s what makes it disproportionate, and such great propaganda fodder for Hamas. It’s as if some Black Panther during the 60’s civil rights conflict had shot a cop, and the cops reacted by driving through black neighborhoods indiscriminately spraying the crowds and buildings with gunfire. Who would have come across looking better ?
Yeah, those fuckers trying to live a life and raise kids don’t want to be able to have their kids go to school without their school bus being blown up!
mudkicker, I don’t believe casdave was talking about Ireland when he mentioned taking two years to hear a bugle call.
I’d love to see peace in my lifetime. I just no longer believe it’s possible.
The options I mentioned in post #36 are the only realistic alternatives to the intolerable status quo – unless you can think of another? Didn’t think so. So why won’t Israel, or you, seriously consider either?