And this is why you probably will never be as wealthy as me. If you believe that your chances of starting a successful business is equal to the chances of winning the lottery, you have lost before you have started.
No, a VERY successful business. The kind of business where your take home per year is in million-plus range. Not the kind of business where you can afford that bass boat and splurge for a kegerator.
You would be surprised at the number of small businesses that net $1M/year or more. They are all over the place. I know of HVAC businesses that make this much. I net 40% of this with only two employees.
That isn’t your take-home. 400k divided between 3 people isn’t even close to the kind of fuck-you money that these taxes are hitting.
I get it, you don’t like taxes. But you’re fooling yourself if you think that you’re even in the upper middle class.
Hey, Dumbest and Dumbester. There’s is nothing that I’ve written that shows that I do not appreciate that there is a difference between earned and unearned income. The statements I’ve made pointing out the moral components of an estate tax should make that clear to all except the spittleful.
Similarly, I understand what a progressive tax is just fine. So there is no need to look it up. Maybe YOU should look it up. Or look up Chucklehead on the internets until you find the right definition, which you’ll be able to determine by there being a picture of you right at the top.
PLEASE, son, read a book on fallacies. Please. Just about every post you offer contains at least one. You’re coming off as a fucking imbecile. Granted the only way to stop that might be to stop typing, though. Unbelievable.
That my net, after I pay the employees. I feel like I am in the upper middle class, but I will defer to your definition.
Who likes taxes? Only people who don’t pay them. Is that you? I view them as a necessary evil to run the other necessary evil, the government. I view progressive taxation and estate taxes as part of the necessary evil. However, that does not mean that I feel I should have to pay unlimited taxes to support those who unwilling to pay themselves (say the bottom 35-40% of Americans). I believe (seriously) that everyone should pay taxes, even if only at a nominal 5% rate. The idea that many American pay no or even negative taxes is appalling, and is a large part of the reason why we are where they are at. They have no skin in the game.
I guess that I am most interested is what the progressives in this board feel is a reasonable upper tax bracket. Anyone want to venture a number? Diogenes has already tossed out 100%. Insane, and totally loopy, but at least honest.
Personally, I could go with 35% to 40%, assuming I was happy with what i was getting for it. Right now, neither the Republicans or Democrats are even close to giving me my money’s worth. I feel I am getting government worth about a 20% marginal rate.
Reasonable upper tax bracket? 50-65%. Less if you get rid of all of the deductions that are given out as favors by congress.
Just curious, would you be willing to accept this rate kicking in at 60% of your current income, if it was included in a package that included universal heath care?
BTW, there are no deductions when your income hits around 250k. You can thank the ATM for this.
The reason that I ask this is that most progressive I know feel that taxes should be raised only on those who make more than they do. This holds true across the entire income range. There are a few exceptions that would be willing to increase their own taxes, but they are few and far between in my experience.
I’m curious myself as to why anyone is even talking about estate taxes in what is supposed to be a jobs bill. It’s not the place for it, and its presence detracts from the more important business of turning around the economic mess that eight years of conservative leadership has bequeathed to American workers.
I’m not going to pay 60% of my income. 60% of my income would probably drop me below the poverty level. The whole point of progressive taxes are that Mr. McRich’s $100 is worth a lot less to him than my $100 is, and my $100 is worth less than me than someone who works for minimum wage.
Most of the papers I have read put Mr. McRich’s 65% at an equal or slightly lesser pain level than my 20-some percent.
Furthermore, you must be aware that the top 10% of taxpayers generate around 90% of the tax revenue, and the richest 1% generate something like 60% of revenue. Raising the taxes on median earners is not revenue or utility efficient. Add to that the fact that quite a few people who make millions plus are only taxed 15% or so, and that just adds insult to injury.
Dragging the whole “we can’t afford to pay for health care” thing in is just a red herring.
Okay, so I invest $20K today into Great Company, Inc. 40 years go by and GCI splits a bunch of times, goes up in price, and my $20K is now worth $800K on the open market. If I sell it, I have to pay capital gains on the difference, but you want me to be able to give it to my kids and they don’t have to pay a dime? Is that it?
And what does revenue have to do with anything? You are taxed on income. Are you Joe The Plumber? He made the same mistake.
Not only that, but the basis is reset at $800K and no tax is ever paid on the $780K gain. Not double taxation, no taxation, ever.
You think paying taxes is worse than dying?
Yes. I don’t want you to pay capital gains taxes on it, either though.
This board is full of people that are smarter than average, but the amount of misinformation is still staggering. I don’t know how we are supposed to have a Democracy when the voters don’t know what’s going on, their representatives are lying to them, and Fox News repeats the lies, rather than calling them out.
Here is a list of what people have gotten wrong in this thread:
- The Senate did not vote on the estate tax yesterday, it just didn’t vote on a bill that would have lowered the rate schedule put in place several years ago.
- Estate taxes are not paid by widows/widowers following their spouses death
- The 55% rate applies to the incremental value of the estate beyond $1M, it doesn’t take 55% of the whole estate if it exceeds $1M.
- The basis for capital gains is reset for assets in the estate. This means the vast majority of estates are better off with the current estate tax laws than they would be without them.
- Income taxes are not paid on revenue, they are paid on income.
- Rich people can avoid estate taxes by setting up trusts.
I’m sure I missed some.
Well you missed this one (ETA: maybe).
Estate planning for the best tax consequences is complicated and expensive, but it’s much less expensive than 55% of the estate’s value above the exclusion. You can avoid probate by various means including living trusts (AB). There’s also the QTIP if you want to extend things further (great if you have friends in congress). You can also avoid the estate tax by gifting (up to a million). One technique is to gift money to the kids, who buy life insurance, or to set up a life insurance trust, which avoids a large portion of the taxes.
There are also charitable trusts, etc, which you can use.
There are many ways to avoid paying much, if any, estate tax. Most of it will be taxed at income tax or capital gains tax rates, or even gift tax rates (this depends on what year you die).
ETA: On second read of your post, I am not sure if you were saying people can or can’t avoid estate taxes.
ETA2: The actual estate tax rate is less than 55%, too, it’s supposed to be zero this year and I think 45% next year, but I don’t know the current rate schedule, as I haven’t been doing much estate planning.
If we accept taxation as a fact of life, and also value that people should enjoy the fruits of their labor, the inheritance tax is the most moral way to collect tax revenue.
I see no reason why the child of a millionaire deserves even a single penny of their parents money. The fact that they are taxed 55% after the first million and are whining about it doesn’t move my sympathy-meter even a single millimeter.