When you’re talking about chemistry and Malone’s desire to get the ball and score don’t forget this. He signed for the veteran minimum. I would be surprised if he did that then decided he needed to get lots of shots and pump up his stats.
My guess is that Malone will be a good worker bee, do as he’s told, and be a role player. Get some rebounds, force people to defend him, but let Shaq and Kobe be the stars.
Yes. Malone is in the to get a ring, and to get Kareem’s record.
He has to average only 12 points for 2 seasons to break it. I’m sure the Lakers will find a way for him to get his 10 or 15 a game.
I am no expert on the luxery tax thing but I believe both of them were signed using exemptions so lux tax doesn’t apply.
You better believe Shaq will be in fine at the start of this season. He doesn’t want to be the bad link in this famous team.
Haj
No, the luxury tax applies. They were signed under cap exemptions, but the tax still counts.
The Lakers CAN’T get rid of Madsen. They’ve got to keep him for his dancing!
The triangle is designed to create an open man. It doesn’t follow traditional formulas for positions but it doesn’t have to. Look at the Bulls. They won six rings without a dominant center and with Scotty Pippen playing more like a point guard than a forward. With the lakers you already have two guys who demand double teams any time they touch the ball. That’s going to leave open looks for Malone who can still nail that mid-range jumper, especially on single teams and for Payton who can not only shoot the jumpers but can penetrate. The Glove can also still play some pretty good defense when he’s motivated, and I think a team making a push for a ring will motivate him.
Malone and Payton don’t have to be the stars of the team any more, they just have to be role players, but what solid role players they could be.
I think they should throw Luke Walton in there with the other 4 greats. Sort of an alternate point forward type. That would be awesome. He’s really good at getting the ball to the right places at the right times.
Plus then we could have a lineup of O’Neal, Malone, Walton, Bryant and Payton to bring the Hall of Famer starting lineup dealie to it’s fullest potential (ignoring the fact that the Walton in question is Luke not Bill…still close, though).
That would be sweet.
**Diogenes the Cynic ** I’m close to calling “bullshit”. I looked at the Bulls. Horace Grant never got more than about 15 shots a game, usually scored around 10-15 a game, and he always made better than 50% of his shots. Which meant that he got the shots he did have because he was better on the post than their center, and took high-percentage shots in the paint. He was also good for 3-4 offensive boards per game, which also lead to high percentage shots. Malone’s only good for 2-3.
Robert Horry, on the other hand, got 5-6 shots a game, because Shaq clogs the middle (Shaq has eaten his way out of being able to play the high post, and it just doesn’t work when you have two players on the low post, so Malone’s post-up opportunities will be limited).
If Malone is limited to that mid-range jumper, he’s going to get less than 10 shots a game, which will sit fine with him until the first time the team loses 2-3 in a row and the media starts noticing that All-Star Malone is scoring at a pace that is 10 PPG under his career average, and then he’s going to get all mad and demand the ball more and take more bad shots, it won’t matter to him that the reason why he’s scoring less is because more talented people are taking his shots.
I’ll admit that Payton can still shoot, he gives them a legitimate third shooter and that’ll be enough to show a good amount of success. But if the playoffs this year taught you anything, it should have taught you that Payton can’t stop anybody anymore. Any of the top 5 point guards in the league could toast Payton on any given night.
For my final point, I offer three words. “2000 Washington Redskins”.
Fuck the Lakers?
If you think it’ll help, but I’m going to need a lot of alcohol first.
Maybe so, but Fisher can’t guard the top 5 point guards either, and he can’t shoot nearly as well as Payton. So it’s still a big gain.
As for the 2000 'Skins, they don’t really apply. They had their most important position filled by Brad Johnson without a system in place that actually used him correctly. Plus, they didn’t have a reliable kicker which cost them a few games.
And they had Deion Sanders and he’s a bigger jerk than anyone on the Lakers.
Football is different. Football is truly for the young and foolhardy. Deion was coming off the massive concussion.
When the Magic signed Horace Grant and went to the finals against the Rockets would be a similar situation. They had Shaq and Penny, but needed a bit more.
Think about how excited Karl Malone must be–probably about as unenthused as I am about this whole deal–to have not only a legitimate shot, but to be on a team that is now the prohibitive favorite. I’ll bet he’s at the gym and running every day. Payton also. They will be ready to play next season, I’m afraid.
LordVor, I agree that some things are going to have to happen. Shaq is going to have to get in shape and stay in shape. Malone is going to have to accept a smaller role than he’s used to and Payton is going to have to play defense. They do have a great motivation to do those things, though, and in sports, winning cures all ills. If the Lakers stay atop the Western conference all year I think that Karl will be happy. I think that Payton will have more energy to burn on defense if his primary role is to dump the ball in to Shaq and stay on the perimeter as a third shooter. He doesn’t have to drive the whole offense any more. It just seems to me like this line-up can play inside out all year. Feed it to Shaq underneath and let him stuff it himself or find an open man outside. That’s what looks like a strength to me, you have the game’s most dominant center down low and a murderer’s row of shooters on the outside-- not to mention a shooting guard who can take it to the house at any time. As to Malone getting boards, he’ll be the fourth shooter. He’ll be free underneath a lot with Shaq there and I think he’ll get a few boards and a few shots a game. That’s all he needs to do and I agree it’s not clear how he’ll respond to such a reduced role but Phil Jackson has been very good at managing egos in the past. He got three productive years out of Rodman, don’t forget. He seems to be the only coach that Jordan ever really respected as well, and MJ has a huge ego.
The triangle defense is predicated on causing a defense to over commit to one side and create space on the other side. With Shaq and Kobe you have two guys who already cause defenses to over commit and now you have guys at every position who can shoot.
I think it’ll work, but I guess we’ll see.
I’m not necessarily overjoyed about another Laker’s ring btw, my own team is the Wolves. We just made a fairly big move (for us) by getting Sam Cassell to compliment Kevin Garnett and now it looks like it’s going to be moot.
I’ll go out on a limb–given star egos–I doubt Malone or Payton will say one word in the media about reduced roles, ever. Nor, I’ll bet, will they let it bother them IRL.
Winning a ring with Kobe and Shaq, after the down year, will allow them to cash in on endorsements in a way neither player ever has. Oops. That was pretty cynical. I mean, winning a ring will allow them to round out their excellent careers.
DtC, you’re probably right about one point, as long as they’re on top of the conference nobody’s going to complain about anything (except, perhaps, if Kobe’s deciding to abandon the triangle and just hoist up 30 shots a night like he’s been known to do in stretches). All of the “big ego” scenarios I can think of have to be triggered by them dropping a few. If they ever fall, say, 5 games back, the team will implode. And I’ll resurrect this thread when they do.
-lv
Make it 10 games. My hypothetical assumes a path strewn with roses to the NBA Finals. Which, unfortunately, seems possible.
OK, am I the only one who is REALLY, REALLY excited about the upcoming basketball season? I mean, the NBA ranks as a distant second to MLB on my favorite sports list, and I don’t usually get too amped up until the second half…but this is shaping up to be awesome.
We have the Lakers with O’Neal, Bryant, Malone and Payton, the Kings with their usual cast of characters, the Mavericks with their usual cast of characters plus maybe a player who can actually play the post if they can swing it, the T’wolves added Cassell to give them the second scorer they desperately needed (let’s face it, Sczerbiak is best as a third option), the Spurs still have a monster amount of cap space to play with, the Nuggets and Cavs look like they will be a ton of fun to watch, the Nets resigned Kidd and grabbed Mourning who may or may not be worthwhile but it will be entertaining either way, and Detroit has an actual, if young, offensive threat in the paint!
Plus the Knicks will continue to suck and do stupid things and generally be good entertainment value as they melt down over the course of the season. And looks like Riley has another losing season ahead of him! Woohoo!
I’m probably going to be terribly disappointed in a few months, but for the time being I’m enjoying it.
Well, the OP did mention injuries. That would be interesting.
I’m with Neurotik, in that this does make the upcoming season something to talk about. Let’s see how everything else goes. For example, Kobe and the potential sexual assault charges.
Well, it’s the half-way point, so I thought I’d see how I was doing. As of the All-Star break, the mighty Lakers are 31-19, 6 behind the Kings in the Pacific, and owners of the 5th best record in the Western Conference. They’re 11-15 on the road, and 15-15 against the rest of the West.
Granted, the implosion I called for hasn’t really happened yet, mostly because all the big egos have hardly played together this season. Kobi’s trial limits his playing time, while the Mailman’s body has worn down. People can blame luck there, but really, you have to expect that sort of thing to happen when you’re dealing with players of his age. As to specific numbers I predicted:
Malone, when healthy, has shot 9.9 times per game, has 1.5 offensive rebounds per game, and is averaging 14 points per game, 10 less than his career average. And he’s passing less to do it, too (1 less assist per game than last year). He has stepped it up a bit on the rebounds, but he’s still averaging less than 10 boards per game (perspective: roughly twice the boards of Horace Grant).
Payton can still shoot, he’s tracking well to his career numbers. His steals are down again, but I haven’t watched him enough to see if he’s getting toasted regularly.
I think we can label the Laker’s Dynasty as DOA at this point. We’ll see if they can get it together (or even get everybody on the court at the same time) for the playoffs, but they’re looking at a #5 or #6 seed, at best.
-lv
So the buzz is the Diesel to the Mavericks. Thoughts Laker haters?
I pray that Malone doesn’t sign back up, then I have absolutely no reason to like this team at all.
Well, I’d like to do a quick dissection on the season.
Clearly, Payton is toast. I knew he’d be a defensive liability, but I didn’t realize he’d lost his offense, too. Dammit.
Karl Malone. This season fell apart when he went down with the injury. It’s funny, I went into the season respecting Payton a lot more than Malone. Now it’s the other way around - Payton turned out to be a whiny bitch completely out of touch with reality, while Malone turned out to be the perfect role player the Lakers needed: kept his mouth shut, did the dirty work, worked his ass off.
Phil Jackson. Phil, Phil, Phil. You are a wonderful coach when you don’t actually need to do any, y’know, coaching. Was he the last person on the face of the Earth to realize Payton’s done. Did anyone realize later than him that Malone shouldn’t be given significant minutes after he re-injured his knee? Gah!
I’m not sorry to see him go, except that it makes Shaq unhappy. Too bad they didn’t get rid of him a few seasons ago before he had the chance to sabotage Jerry West’s career with the Lakers.
True colors of Shaq and Kobe. Kobe would rather be the Man on a 30 win team than be smart and be the second banana on a championship team. He didn’t even try in that last series. Shaq, on other hand, worked his butt off against the Pistons. I can’t understand why Buss has this fetish about Kobe. Trade Kobe, not Shaq! Dammit.
I’m not looking forward to the offseason. Jerry Buss has been pissing me off the past few years. His little fetish with Phil Jackson wound up running off the best GM in the NBA - maybe in all of sports. And now his little fetish with Kobe is going to run off Shaq. And Kupchak isn’t smart enough to get nearly equal value.
Anyway, to be honest, I’m not sure I see Shaq going anywhere. They can’t get enough back for him from the teams that can afford his contract.