I’m watching Matt Lauer interview a Congressman from North Carolina advocating establishing a national ID card (baaad idea). The Rep. said, “Americans have been spoiled by too much liberty.”
By all means, let’s let a temporary situation unravel our fabric of civil liberties. Let’s destroy democracy while trying to preserve it. :rolleyes:
On a positive note, the Cato Institute guy arguing against an ID card is really handsome, woof!
Hi Gobear,
What is your objection to an Identity card system? I’m not taking the pro side of the debate, I’m just not aware of the situation. Is this along the lines of “Name: Address: Ethnicicity (sp?)”
Well, the President already said he wouldn’t support a national ID card initiative. Much to Larry Ellison’s dismay, I’m sure.
Other than the creepy-Nazi-esque feeling I get from it (“Ve neet to zee your papers”), I object to the presumption of guilt. By giving someone the right to demand to see my papers, there is an assumption that I’m doing something wrong. Should National ID cards happen, I believe that the only response one should make to the question “Can I see your papers” is “No. Not until you tell me what I’ve done wrong. Why do you need to?”
I object to random traffic stops for much the same reason.
Fenris
Ah! An issue that can bring the left and the right together! And that is a much better response than my automatic response of “Fuck you,” which would not have good consequences when directed at a cop. Going to jail for making a reasonable refusal to show your papers gets the ACLU on your side. Swearing at cops leaves you as an entry on the police blotter.
No position on ID cards, but the phrase “spoiled by too much liberty” rings all the alarm bells, doesn’t it?
Just the “too much liberty” part alone is telling. WTF is “too much liberty” ??
Actually, I have a pretty good idea of what he means. There’s always been good, wholesome, ‘American’, God-and-country ways of enjoying one’s liberties.
Then there’s us sex pervs and deves, and people who protest against wars and the like. Too much liberty. :rolleyes:
So we’ve been spoiled by too much liberty. But now it’s time to whip us back into being God-fearing, morally upright, patriotic Americans.
Nope. Ain’t gonna fly.
There is no such critter as “too much liberty.” One of the reasons I love my nation is that we are a cantankerous lot. We’re idiosyncratic individualists; our heroes are the mavericks, the Lone Ranger, the guy who stands up for himself (yes, Otto, that includes you).
In addition, Fenris brings up an excellent poitn about the presumption of guilt. If we have a national ID card, not having it on you would be criminalized. I went through that in South Korea, and I’d just as soon that America not turn into a police state where you can be held by the cops for no reason.
People who would exchange liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security.
If we have too much liberty, why aren’t our prisons empty?
I’ve read that Section 656(b) of “The Illegal Immigration Reform Act” of 1996 would put us close to a national ID card. It took effect Oct 1, 2000. It mandated “biometric” coding on state driver’s licenses.
However, I’ve been unable to find the text of that passage to verify it–only what others say it says.
Better too much liberty than too much chastity. (smilie)
The idea of mandated national ID cards bothers me, too. But between having driver’s licenses needed to drive and with nearly all others using state ID cards, would that many people other than illegal immigrants be affected?
When our leaders make statements that we have “too much liberty”, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment becomes even clearer. Before I start ranting about arming ourselves against power mad assholes like this, I would like a site to prove he said it, and the context in which he said it.
“Too Much Liberty” was my favorite Schoolhouse Rock
Liberty
there’s too much of it going on
Liberty
We need to crack down before long
Speech and religon and press
are putting us to the test
we need restrictions on privacy
A laminated card for identity
because
There’s just too much of
Liberty
We need to keep it in check
Ohhhh, Liberty
It’s time we stacked the deck
against Liberty
There’s t-o-o-o-o-o-o much going on
of
Liberty-y-y-y-y-y
We need to clamp down on
Liberty
Before we end up too free-e-e-e-e
Did you mispeak here, or are you actually referring to Larry Ellison, Oracle tycoon and billionare playboy?
I wrote down the quote as I heard it on Today this morning, so no, there’s no written cite. Sorry.
And it wasn’t Lary Ellison, it was Larry Justus, some peckerwood Congressman from Jesse Helms’s home planet.
You do not currently need a license to walk down the street. A national ID card would mean that random stops would be easier, using the same legal maneuverings that make drunk-driver sweeps legal, and more “fruitful.” Unlike most ideas that make people say, “But the only person affected is the one who is doing something wrong,” this could pose legal problems for you the instant you walk out the door without your wallet.
And I think Larry Ellison would be HAPPY that a whole new computerized database infrastructure would be needed! 
No, I meant Larry Ellison; Oracle tycoon, billionare playboy, and the first person slobbering at the NSA’s front door like a horny cocker spaniel, pimping his products as the back-end for the national ID card database.
Of course “Biometric” can mean a wide variety of things. I recently moved and had to get a new driver’s license because the address was now incorrect on the old one. The “biometric” info encoded on the magnetic strip is a scan of my thumbprints. That pretty much uniquely identifies me, but it isn’t really something I worry about because I know the police have had that info about me since I was a kid and my parents(like all good parents) had me fingerprinted. Damn sheep. My wife and I got home fingerprinting kits and we have the kids prints in the fire safe at home. If something happens to the kids, we can whip them out when they are needed. Until that time, we know where they are and what they are being used for. I don’t have a problem with each individual being uniquely identifiable, I just want there to be a good process someone has to go through before they can get this data. Preferably including a request for that person’s permission, but this can be excused in certain cases(like when the person is dead).
Steven
Larry E = 6;llison =6; Oracle =6. Aha, now we know the name of the Beast! 
I, too, object to a national ID card. While it’s not per se unconstitutional for each state to require ID cards of its citizens, you can’t tell me the Commerce Clause stretches to give Congress the power to enact such a law.
And… it’s creepy.
Mjollnir, I took a look at THOMAS, but was unable to find the section you mentioned above.
Between 1993 and 1996, both the House and the Senate introduced at least one variant of an “Illegal Immigration Control/Reform/Reduction Act” in both the 103rd and 104th Congresses. Perhaps part of the Contract On America? I don’t know.
There’s just too much information to be sifted before I can find what you’re talking about. Someone’s going to have to pay me to do that.
As I have already said many times in the past, we have urinalysis and SSNs to look to as examples of how any further incursion on our civil liberties will be pried wide open by our illustrious Supreme Court. A national ID card will be used against us, the people, in every possible way. That’s just how it works these days, and proponents of this idea had better understand that.