Fuck Your National Security State

The BBQ Pit
41

I would love to go to Canada some day-just seems like a nice place-well that the fact that most Canadians I’ve met are extremely nice people. (NOT that I’m stereotyping…)

But what the HELL? CANADA is a hotspot for terrorists? Where the FUCK did the pilots get their licenses? The hijackers, I mean.

Not to mention, weren’t all the flights on September 11 taken and diverted to Canada-who took in these people?
I mean, fuck off. I’m so sick of the US thinking that because they, well, I guess I have to say WE, are a super power, we can tell anyone to suck it or else. That kind of thing doesn’t make allies-it just pisses people off.

Besides, if we start screaming at Canada for letting in terrorists, then I suppose then that Latin America should start screaming at us about the Chicago Boys and United Fruit.

Now, does anyone here know The Canada Song from MST3K? No wait, that’s not appropriate…in fact, that’s down right INappropriate…oh well, here’s the last verse, just for a tongue in cheek-and because I adore my MST3K!

Just where the hell does Canada get off sharing a border
with countries far superior to it?
Why you lousy stinking franco-phonic bacon loving bastards
Your country’s just a giant piece of-

Mike: Wait! Wait, now we’ve gone too far…calm down, it’s okay.
Servo: I’m sorry, I really am-help!
(sounds like that’s often the attitude though of obnoxious 'mericans)

42

Guin, Once again, no one is blaming Canada. Obviously the US had far more security failures on Sept. 11 than Canada did. The US obviously needs to tighten its security and we need to find a way to do it without trading in our freedoms.

That said, what exactly is wrong with the US asking Canada to take a look at its own security procedures as well? Several opportunites to grab suspected terrorists as they enter Canada have been missed.

I doubt that the Canadian government is so ultra-sensitive to US requests.

43

Well, I’m terribly sorry to offend. Will you please tell me when disagreeing with the actions of the US will become tasteful again? Will it be too late by then?

44

:rolleyes: (6.02 x 10[sup]23[/sup]) and then some.

45

The Canadian Air Force is based in Colorado Springs? Boy, am I out of the loop! :smiley:

And I’ll start calling for Canada to tighten up its borders when the U.S. starts tightening up its borders.

Whoa, you lie to the Feds and what happens? You become permanently ineligible to obtain a visa! Now that’s what I call a deterrent! And talk about your meticulous screening procedures…

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/tribwest/chi-0110050310oct05.story

46

I take it this means you don’t have an answer for me…

47

<sticks neck in room>

Personally, I think the idea of a tight North American perimeter is a good one.

Like it or not, our 2 countries are close. They will continue to be. For the ease of commerce (that is what drives both of our countries, agreed?) and safety, I think its something that we should very seriously be looking at. If it helps keep terrorists and other criminals out of N.A. while keeping commerce and travel between us simple, sounds great to me. Legit people entering NA should have no concerns other than a longer wait. I fail to see a problem, and IMHO it probably should have happened sooner.

48

Look, ANY reaction the US has taken in the last few weeks can be seen as “kneejerk”. Hell, we just got slammed, and hard. There is a smoldering pile of 6000 dead people in Manhattan.

Are we freaked out? Hell yeah! Imagine this happening in YOUR town, Canada or the US. While I can see how our friends to the north might resent the tone of our rhetoric, it’s only because we are fucking scared, pissed, an a bit scatterbrained over this.

We want as a nation to crawl under the covers, and hope mommy will make it better. However, we must deal with it.

I can see how you Canucks would see our response as intrusive, but think about it. We are hurting. And we might enact some stuff that might make you all (and us of course) feel a bit put upon. I would hope that you guys would agree with us because these terrorist assholes don’t care, as long as they hit any of us.

Oh, and I am very much for civil liberties, but I don’t see how tightening up the border makes us assholes.

Bagkitty, I think you were a bit over the top.

Believe me, it’s not a “How can we screw over Canada thing”, it’s a " Muslim extremists can hit any country in the world, and we want to stop it thing"

49

While I haven’t read all the posts since that post here are my thoughts:

We proposed this to the entire world. This is not a game, I have to stress, it’s not a fucking GAME. Canada has always been in the realm of our complete and allies more than England where Blair has stated his unconditional support of what is happening. Pakistan is coming to us with some arms open, at least the government but hey, I never forget the Canadians in anytime of my life I have a man in my life who’s both an American citizen and a Canadian citizen…oh but shit I don’t mean shit in the realm of it all.

BULL FUCKING SHIT…we all are touched by this, my Canadian counterparts are part of this as I am living in Colorado. Our economies are so intertwined, it’s stupid to think otherwise.

Look, it’s time that bagkitty realizes that it’s time to sit back and let the powers that be sort this out. Do I like it? FUCK NO, I hate it, I hate where we are, but if my nieghbor needs help (yes this goes to the idea of my Canadian friends) then I am there for them, but for her to say that it’s basically our problem is highly sad and unrealistic because next time it might be some big city in Canada.

I still can’t see her thinking, She need to be addressed in a way that many haven’t been. Next it’s Montreal that will get hit…

So if you, bagkitty, think that you are immune you are sadly mistaken, it could be your city, it could be London, Paris, Rome, Washington DC or Denver…it can happen anywhere…You are sadly mistaken that you are immune, saddly mistaken.

They don’t care WHO they hit they only care they hit those that represent freedom, and Canada is not far behind the States. So rethink this sister, your office building could be next. It’s not just the US it’s all that represent freedom, and your country like to accept people with fake IDs…as I have already pointed out.

Again, this is not to my Canadian friends who make sense but to Ms Bagkitty.

50

Techie, bagkitty is a deranged male.

51

Gosh Goose, you’re right. I mean if the US is continuing to have security problems clearly, Canada should be free to have the same. I mean the US has imperfect security so why should an effort even be made? Besides the US is a big mean bully. It’s all their fault anyway. And who cares if thousands more die as long as each nation can keep its pride intact while have a fucking useless stupid asine cunt licking bastard child hit in the head with a crowbar motherfucking anus sucking border spat! Shit! Someone want to remind me again why our two nations can’t work together on this? Isn’t there something a little more important than feeling all fucking indignant at being asked for coroperation in this effort? Why the hell is “Hey, could ya give those visas a second glance?” the first hallmark of a Nationalist State? I must have missed my fascist watch class cause to me this looks like a serious case of over-reaction by the perennially indignent.

Matt complain about the US all you want just make it a legitimate gripe. If it’s just leftist anti-US drivel don’t expect a warm reception. Our tolerace for meaningless US hate is a little low.

52

Ah, yes, Canada and America at each others throats, such a lovely picture. Yeah, let’s just build a wall between our two countries and put armed guards in towers along the top. :rolleyes: Since Canada won’t concede to our wishes and we won’t concede to hers, that’s the perfect solution. :rolleyes:

Folks, the US has done some stupid things in the past, lots of stupid things, but that doesn’t change the fact that we’re the better devil out of the two being presented by the terrorists.

Okay, so we told Canada that it’d better change its screening proceedures or we’ll be terribly upset. What do you think’s going to happen if Canada doesn’t? Do you think that we’re going to roll across the border and take control of your country? :rolleyes: Please, all that will happen is we’ll engage in a lot of stern words and pass a lot of laws which make commerce slightly harder between the two countries. There’ll be a lot of squabbling, but in the end, no real harm done.

One of the reasons Canada can sit up there and bitch about the US is because we’re so willing to take on the rest of the world. Sure, we’ve dabbled in things we shouldn’t have, passed laws that are stupid, but we have done some good in this world. We didn’t lock ourselves into Fortress America when the Nazi’s started running around Europe, nope, we went off and fought just like everybody else.

Okay, so a politician asked Canada to do something about its immigration policy. Big deal. I’m not sure how politics work in Canada, but here in the good old US of A, politicians sometimes say things publicly that they don’t really mean since they know that sooner or later they’ll be up for re-election (or their boss will) and they need to do something to make it look like they’re actively involved in things. We haven’t stuck a gun in your face and we’re not going to.

53

Sorry to intrude with a note of reality… but most will agree that WWII started in September 1939. The U.S. didn’t enter the war until December 1941. (WWII in 1914, U.S. entry in 1917). Sorta a johnny-come-lately. Maybe you learned your XXth century history from Hollywood?

54

Damn, I forgot to add something (how unlike me) Canada declared war against Nazi Germany (independently of the UK) – in September 1939. ('Cause I’m certain Hollywood history doesn’t cover that little fact.)

55

Well, gorsh, I forgot all about that! :rolleyes: Of course, Hollywood history also tends not to mention the whole lend/lease thing, where we basically gave the Brits (and no doubt Canada as well) the supplies and money to be able to fight the war while Roosevelt tried to find a way to convince the American people that the US needed to join the war (only to have the Japanese solve that problem for him quite nicely). Hollywood did however make a movie about US solders fighting in the war before the US formally joined. Ever heard of The Flying Tigers? IIRC it starred a little known actor by the name of John Wayne.

56

I think our two nations are working together; we have been for a long time.

It’s just little minds and little people like bagkitty throwing stones at America (Schadenfreude). As someone once said, “When the giant stumbles, the dwarves are bound to giggle.”

Shame too, as most Canadians are decent people. Bagkitty obviously has an enormous chip on his/her shoulder and a sad little inferiority complex.

57

No, don’t bring it up, Tuck. Then baggedlitter will just claim us Yanks think war is a John Wayne movie. :rolleyes:

58

What amuses me about the reactions of bagkitty (and even Matt, to an extent), is that they are making some rather strained claims for what “the U.S.” does based on the rants of Ashcroft and the INS.

Ashcroft is considered a wild-eyed mouth-foamer even among a large number of Republicans. He never utters a word that does not sound like a demand. He has been in Congressional committees for the last two weeks claiming that if we don’t scrap the Bill of Rights, immediately, bin Laden is going to be the next President and CEO of U.S.A. Inc.
(Yes, I am exaggerating. . . a little.)

By the same token, the INS considers any non-citizen who crosses the U.S. border to be an affront to their charter. If the INS had its way, when we invited a foreign dignitary to visit the U.S., they would have to stay in the Bahamas or St. Pierre et Miquelon and our dignitaries would go meet them there. For the INS to call on Canada for stronger measures is rather like hearing that Pat Buchanan has called for trade barriers: it’s what they do.
(Here, I am not exaggerating quite so much.)

Anyone who listens to a remark by Ashcroft or an INS official and begins whining or pouting that the U.S. “bully” is trying to get its way is simply displaying a lot of ignorance about what the actual U.S. administration is willing to demand from others. Ashcroft was picked as AG in another time for a different agenda. It is unfortunate that we are now stuck with him in the current situation, (Well, it was unfortunate that we were stuck with him previously, but he was only going to offend Yanks, originally), but he is not representative of “American” thought.

I am sure that the U.S. administration would like to work with Canada (and Mexico) to make North America more secure. “Demands” from Ashcroft are from Ashcroft.

None of this will change bagkitty’s views, venom-etched in stone as they are, but everyone else on both sides of the 49th parallel ought to step back, take a deep breath, and consider that we too often allow personalities to interfere with decisions that should be based on logic and law.

The U.S. has made stupid demands on the world in the past, (Helms-Burton being particularly egregious), but I don’t see anyone kow-towing to the U.S. anywhere, despite our alleged willingness to push people around. Making a demand and finding someone to accede to a demand are rather different things.

59

Ooooh! Nice try, Tuck, but you just clubbed air.

While Chennault recruited the AVG during the summer of 1941, the first combat sortie by the Flying Tigers did not occur until December 21, 1941–two weeks after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
You’d have been safer pointing to all the kids who went to Canada to sign up for the RAF to fight in the Battle of Britain, eventually being brought into the USAAF as the 4th Fighter Group (and I don’t remember which bomber outfit).

60

Damn you! How dare you bring facts into this discussion!?! :wink: Oh well, I’m not a big fan of WW II movies anyway (Casablanca being an execption) and that just happened to pop into mind when I was writing the post. I think some of our guys also joined the French Foreign Legion when things broke out in '39, but I don’t know if there was a movie about it. In any case, Americans didn’t all sit on their collective fat asses until Dec. 7th, 1941. Many people started working on trying to get the US built up militarily long before 1939.