There are some pretty good indications that it has, unfortunately.
Montreal Gazette:
“Five of the terrorists who crashed two passenger jets into New York City’s World Trade Centre on Tuesday entered the United States through Canada - probably through border points in Quebec and Nova Scotia.”
Montreal Gazette
"But Reid Morton, a former director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, insists there is proof that Quebec - and other parts of Canada - are centres for terrorist planning, fundraising and arms storage.
‘People come here to raise funds,’ he said. ‘They come here to collect funds. They come here to park hot bodies. And they come here to plan operations.’"
Boston Globe, originally
“…the startling ease with which terrorist groups have used the nation as a sanctuary, staging ground, and place for fund-raising. They came not just because of Canada’s proximity to the United States, but because of its loose immigration procedures, lack of antiterrorism laws, and social welfare programs so generous that even someone arriving with falsified documents could count on drawing government checks within a few weeks.
…
Officials in not only the United States but in Britain and France are seething that Canada did not heed earlier warnings that a bin Laden cell was operating in Montreal. In an unusual rebuke, the federal judge presiding over the California trial blasted Canada’s spy agency for destroying wiretap evidence. The case against Ressam, who was caught smuggling explosives into Washington state from British Columbia, was the centerpiece of US attempts to prosecute terrorists it associated with bin Laden.”
So, Canadians, here it is: Is this a fair assessment of the situation? How well known has it been? What attention has the government given it?
This Yank is very glad to see all the statements of support from you Canadians, and promises to do whatever you can to help. Well, maybe there IS something you can do beyond giving blood. Jump all over Chretien and your MP, and any other official you think has some authority here. Demand an RCMP/CAF sweep of Montreal or wherever else of any remaining cells, whether of bin Laden’s group or of any others. Demand that immigration procedures be taken seriously, and the rules tightened as necessary, to keep this from cropping up again. If the Canadian open-arms attitude, normally so appealing, has to change a little, then that’s what it takes. Attitudes are going to be different down here, too.
Last I heard, they were saying that the WTC hijackers had had their flight training in the U.S., and that some of them were living in Florida in apartments with their families. Does this make the U.S. a “haven for terrorists”?
People come here to raise funds, too. They come here to plan operations. Is it our fault that some of their funds and operations may have to do with, say, overthrowing Fidel Castro?
As a Canadian, I have to admit that there is some truth to that. The problem is our rather lax rules for granting refugee status. This stems from Canada’s inordinate desire for helping others, but it was ill-advised, and lots of Canadians have criticized the government for it before.
I suspect things will change drastically now. The best security for North America is to actually open up our common border even more, and take those resources and use them to beef up security at the international ports of entry. ‘Fortress North America’, so to speak.
All that said, I think it’s tough to really blame Canada. After all, you guys have known that Bin Laden had declared a holy war against you and had significant resources at his disposal, and you did almost nothing about it. So let’s not look at the mistakes of the past - we all learned a lot about the world on Tuesday, and everything is different now. And I’m sure that includes our refugee policies.
Sorry, I see nothing particularly motivating in getting mad at Canada for this. Evidence shows that some of the terrorists were flight-trained in Florida.
I agree with Sam in this greatly: work on immigration, not the border work. We’re all friends here, I thought.
OTTAWA - There is no evidence that any of the hijackers responsible for Tuesday’s terrorist attacks entered the U.S. from Canada, Solicitor General Lawrence MacAulay said Thursday.
I won’t by any means blame canada, but it does seem that for whatever reason the terrorists did enter north america through canada… there must have been a reason for this.
As others have stated, though, they recieved their flight training right here in the USA, so obviously there were failures on many fronts.
I do think that Canada, the US, and Mexico (and possibly other central american countries) should get together and come up with standardized security measures for those entering North America.
Those lines on the map are really meaningless when others come to do us harm.
Remember the cruise missile attacks on his camp in Afghanistan in 1998? Wasn’t that an attempt to take him out? How about similarly acting on intelligence that bin Laden also had a nerve gas factory in Sudan (right or wrong)? Of course, there were those who claimed, and still claim, that another US presidential motive had to be the reason, and that claim is pretty sad, but to assert that “almost nothing” was done is false. That does not even get into information and actions that have not been made public.
Now, maybe I wasn’t clear - emotions have entered into just about everything anyone has said, and I’m not immune. I am not trying to throw blame at anyone for this other than the culprits themselves. I was trying to discuss what needs to be done to end the problem, and to point out that responsibility for doing so extends outside US borders. My post was a request (OK, demand maybe) for help, not an accusation. But effective action requires understanding the nature of the problem first. I apologize for saying anything that might be misconstrued as an accusation. Now let’s cooperate in fixing the problem.
This does strike me as odd. Yes, Canada has a fairly lax immigration policy. There have been calls to tighten it for years.
The thing that really gets my goat is that this is in the Boston paper. Before they go and try to raise concerns with Canada, maybe they should be looking into the fact that there seems to have been a Bin-Laden cell operating in Boston, and they should also try to find out why security at Logan was porous enough to drive a semi through.
First, the Boston Globe article I cited was written last April, not this week. It was in response to the Ressam case - the guy who tried to sneak into the US from Canada with a load of explosives for LAX Airport.
Second, most of the hijackers who got on the plane in Boston are (so far) reported to have entered the airline system at Portland or Bangor, and simply changed planes at Logan. If one stays on the air side, no additional security checks are involved. Where they were before that is still under investigation, but there’s an obvious prime possibility.
That of course does not get Massport off the hook - there’s still a lot we don’t know. But the point was that there is much that needs looking at in Canada, too. I’m a little worried, based on the disbelieving responses from Canadians in this thread, that the underlying problems may still not get properly faced up to there as much as I’m worried about the problem this side of the border, too.
Have you seen Canada? It is a huuuge, almost empty country. We have nowhere near the people resources that the US has for things like policing and anti-terrorist departments. There could be anything going on here (especially in the North), and we would never know it. The border is very, very long, and I don’t really see a way to stop anyone from getting across that really wants to; also, don’t forget that the northern tip of North America is also about 50 (?) miles away from Russia.
Please, don’t make the mistake of confusing “terrorists coming across border from Canada” with “Canada harboring terrorists”. But I do agree that our immigration policies could stand being scrutinized in the near future.
I am a Canadian, and in agreement. I am also EXTREMELY dissatisfied with our government, and current lack of direction.
I do believe we both have a problem with border patrols and immigration, for the simple reason that there is a LOT of area to cover (a lot more than the us-mexico border, and you constantly hear californias complaining about illegal mexicans living there.) We also have a problem with enforcement and prosecution due to our entirely sedentary judicial system. We have a problem with funding because our damn politicians cut back our services until they are essentially non-existant, give pitiful wage increases to public employees to further cause discontent, and then give themselves massive bonuses and raises in pay.
Maybe this should be in the Pit.
If anyone wants to say we can change this thru the vote, they should take a look at how long it was between the start of campaigning and voting in our last federal election. What, 3 weeks? This is not long enough to decide who runs a county, much less a country.
Chretien was not voted in. He is our Prime Minister by default.
The only way any of our policies will change is by international pressure, because that’s the only forum our government feels it has to keep happy. Not its citizens. Maybe this ‘little incident’ will be enough to convince them. But Chretien doesn’t even want to concede that the terrorists could have entered this way. He says that there is no proof they came in through canada. He’s copping out.
Well, the terrorists had to get into the US somehow. To try and blame Canada for anything with regards to people that enter the US is wrong. Unless Canadians are now manning the US side of the border.
Canadians know that the immigration system needs work. Hows about we work on our immigration, and you guys work on your border crossings and airport security?
Immigration is a joke in the US. It is so easy to enter this country with forged passports and the like. If you have money anything is possible. I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of terrorists living and working in America…and these people need to be ferreted out by snitches and anyone else who has info on their operations and such. We need to tighten up our borders BIG TIME!! set up a freakin wall around the Mexican border, its a freakin joke…they just walk across. Same thing with Canada…it needs to be tightened up. They just fly from the Middle East to Germany and then to Canada and from there into the US…presto, easy as pie. Something needs to be done quickly about that.
Well, I don’t think we need to change much at the US-Canada border. Rather we should try to harmonize US-Canada entry policies so that anyone who enters the US will be cleared for Canada, and vice-versa.
Patrolling the border is foolish. The US and Canada need closer ties, not borders.
The US also needs to be tighter on undocumented people entering through the airports and claiming refugee status. We’re going to have to detain people until they prove their claim or are deported. I know that lots of refugess are going to spend more time in detention, but what else can we do?
As a Canadian I am also a bit distressed regarding the groups that make their way here with the intent of building funds or recruiting for their groups. But don’t think for a second that we are harboring them.
Immigration policies must be tuned up, maybe even overhauled. And unfortunately it takes this crisis to make Ottawa take notice.
However, I don’t condone the whole idea that North America must shut down to the rest of the world. There is an ugly racism that has been allowed to come to the surface lately that really disturbs me. I’m hoping that this doesn’t spill over into legislation.
Because there are many legitimate immigrants from these same nations, which the media has pointed its finger to, who come into our countries so that they can have a better life and know the meaning of freedom we must watch how we react.
I say yes screen rigorously and make sure that the people who wish to become citizens don’t have a questionable background or associations but don’t try to shut down immigration, as it is what has built our two countries.
For the U.S. to blame Canada, of all nations, for any part of this is ludicrous. For Canadians to examine what part they played in the relative openness to terrorism of North America generally could be beneficial – but in the U.S. we’ve got our own laundry to clean, such as our need to board planes three minutes after arriving at the airport and so being able to carry on board the plane anything short of a suitcase nuke, and don’t need to discuss any rings around the Canadian collar.
There was some suggestion of bi-Federal law enforcement – people deputized by the two governments jointly to enforce specific laws (I think drug statutes originally) in both countries as needed – some years ago – anyone know if anything came of this?
Finally, for Montrealers disgusted with the present government, may I suggest that there is an eminently qualified NDP candidate with whom you’re personally acquainted who might be willing to run again? (Granted he’s not a majority in Commons, but it’s a step in the right direction.)
An emergency debate on the overall terrorism issue is being held in Parliament on Monday, and will include a debate on the possibility of terrorists making use of Canada.
It is not yet known if any terrorists in the WTC horror entered via Canada or had support by other terrorists in Canada. (The early reports of transit from Nova Scotia seem to have been discounted.) There have, however, been problems with other terrorist incidents, including the relatively recent attempted entry from Canada into the US by a bomber, and the less recent Air India crash.
We don’t have as much trouble with terrorism as the USA, either via international terrorists or national terrorists (although sometimes things heat up in Quebec). Like the USA, the WTC horror has shocked us, and woken us up to the terrorist problem. And I can assure you, that the reaction to the WTC in Canada has been similar to that in the USA.
Obviously it is no more possible to close down the Canada-USA border than it is to build a wall between any of the US states. There is simply too much trade, and our economies are too integrated. To keep the border open to the degree is has traditionally been, but still tighten up significantly on entry in to the USA, I expect that the USA umbrella will have to be extended to cover Canada. In short, the more we tighten up our own customs and immigration on behalf of the USA, the more the USA will be able to continue to cut some slack on the Canada-USA border. We need to start working jointly to keep the terrorists off the continent, for once they are here, the border is rather meaningless. Does the will to do this exist? I think it does.
Concerning the problem of terrorists integrating into Canadian society while they prepare to attack the USA, it is really no different than terrorists integrating into the USA while they prepare to attack the USA. Both our nations will have to continue to work on finding a balance between welcoming genuine immigrants, and protecting against fifth columns. At least now both our nations have awoken to the problem.
Concerning airline security, again there is no significant difference between our nations, and both will have to tighten up security significantly (and have done so since September 11th). At the least, we need to get local and regional flight security up to international flight level, and even then reconsider what needs to be done (e.g. skilled security attendants in airports, in-flight air marshalls, cabin barriers, etc.).
What it all comes down to is that we don’t know to what degree Canada is or is not a haven for terrorists relative to the USA, which itself may or may not be an even greater haven for terrorists. What matters is that like the USA, we are now aware of the tremendous importance of routing out terrorists and protecting against further incursions by terrorists.
I honestly don’t know how competent our spy agency is. It’s only in its infancy, and is rather small. I expect that one outcome of September 11th will be a great deal of work on improving CSIS, and this will be done through close interaction with and mentorship by the USA. It is my impression, however, that CSIS is acutely aware of the issues that ElvisL1ves has raised. Here are two paragraphs from their site which indicate to me that they are not turning a blind eye to the problem:
That’s what our own government had to say about the problem long before WTC. Given the reaction Canadians have had to the WTC horror, I expect that the Canadian government will move rapidly on the problem. (For example, prior to WTC, there was a bill before the House to make it significantly more difficult for groups in Canda to raise funds which eventually could make their way to terrorists. This sort of legislation will be accelerated.)
Does the will to follow through exist? Yes, I think it does. I honestly don’t think that the reaction of Canadians would be any different had it been Bay Street destroyed rather than Manhattan.
ElvisL1ves wrote:
It never occured to me that you were trying to apportion blame on Canada. You have raised some extremely important points which Canada itself and Canada in conjunction with the USA needs to address immediately.
