Fucker's that work at Wendy's; A.K.A A tribute to the crew that work under me!

Not true. For example, you are clearly a dumbfuck.

(Yeah, I know. I am a tightass who should bite you.)

If the “neutral” third party was arranged by the union, or at the union’s behest, they are not actually neutral. On the other hand, Stemba is representing the interests of the company (which does not want anyone to steal from them, ever). To suggest that his actions should be reviewed by a disinterested party is to say that the company cannot protect its own interests. There’s nothing fascistic about objecting to theft.

If the union is going to spend any amount of time on this sort of bullshit, they’re already wasting everyone’s fucking time. Stealing is (a) removal of company property or funds for one’s own use without proper authorization, or (b) conversion of company property or funds for one’s own use without authorization, or © destruction of company property without authorization. Our pharmacist was guilty of (b), even if he never left the store with the rest of the Tylenol, because he converted that property to his own use without authorization.

Now that I’ve educated you, can I assume that you will never again ask for the definition of theft?

None of this has the least factual bearing on whether the man stole anything. It therefore has no bearing on how he must be treated after having done so. If your position is that it should matter, you are entirely and irredeemably wrong, and there is nothing more to be said.

Or we could just let the manager who told him not to steal, and observed him stealing, carry through on what he said he would do, without interjecting any sort of bureaucratic idiocy in the process.

Unless, of course, you believe that anyone engaged in management is automatically in the wrong and not to be let out unsupervised, which does seem to be your position in general.

If he was planning on paying, he should have done so before he used that Tylenol for himself. If he didn’t, then by (b) above he is a thief. It doesn’t matter that he hadn’t left the store, since he had already engaged in theft.

Assuming that Stemba is being honest and accurate, the gentleman should have been fired based on his conduct alone. Theft is, or ought to be, worthy of firing in all cases. The dollar amount is much less important than the fact that you cannot possibly trust that employee again, ever. Furthermore, theft is a crime (yes, even when the person that you steal from is better off than you), so arrest and prosecution are perfectly valid responses. The fact that this does not happen in all cases of employee theft means that most retail store management is much more forgiving than you seem to be implying.

As it happens, he deserved what he got for being so incredibly stupid. Even if he hadn’t been stupid, however, the response was appropriate. The fact that you are paid to object to such things does not change this.

This quote comes from page 2, but I have to comment on it:

That is so true. At one job it seemed as if I couldn’t use sick time, I couldn’t get time off, because I was worth a damn and the slackers were not. Even though I think a lot of county’s comments are bullshit, this one is right-on.

Thank you. Thank you so much for saying this, Anthracite, because it was very timely for me.

I just quit my job. (I have alluded to it in other threads; it had gotten so bad that even Doper veterans like Jodi were saying, “For God’s sake, get out NOW!!” :eek: ) I put in two weeks’ notice. I wanted to leave right away, but my own personal “honor” made me do the two weeks. Part of me wanted to call in sick for the last few days, but my “honor” kept me from that too. So many things that came up in my last days there, I kept on saying to myself, “No, I will go with honor.” Not that I have a habit of behaving dishonorably, but I was desperate to get out of there and in many ways past caring. But I wanted to retain my honor. And it’s an important thing, is it not?

I also think that a lot of what you have had to say on this thread is full of shit, but I had to laugh at this comment. It is true!

In this last job I still cared about the important things that mattered. The “doing my job with honor” part mattered. But the rest of it didn’t. I was such a burn-out. And I learned that it helped immensely to stop caring. So I stopped caring about all the petty bullshit. If another coworker frowned at me or balled me out for some nonexistant infraction, I tried to accomodate them (just to keep the peace) but I didn’t care. I didn’t feel anything–no upset, no hurt, no anger. Just nothing. It’s a very liberating feeling, let me tell you.

Sorry, I just wanted to touch on those few things. Carry on!

You do not even understand the “neutral third party” concept - all you did was rant like a fucking moron and cite yourself to support yourself. I wouldn’t even suggest you bite me; you idiot.

I’m hired directly by the union and don’t work for a firm. I don’t kiss anyone’s ass as they were the ones who called me. And if I was hired by your union (I might have been), I probably wouldn’t have any contact with you, nor do I think you have ever had to deal with anyone like me or in my general position.

As for you worrying whether you give unions a bad name, you ought to. When unions do shit work and become overly hostile, it becomes that much more difficult to keep states from going right-to-work.

Oh, I’ve dealt with people like you, or in your general postion as you put it.

Do you believe in anything or just go to the $$$?

Ever lobbied for an issue that you personally felt was wrong?

Don’t lie now.

I seriously doubt you have. I’ve only ever helped lobby with the union, and my issue area is one where I’m in pretty much agreement with the union on.

And I’m not the person who actually goes to Congress (well, not usually). Mostly I do issue coordination, meaning I help make sure that the various unions (UFW, LIUNA, SEIU, HERE, UNITE!etc.) are putting out the same message on an issue, and making sure the lobby campaigns aren’t contradicting one another and that everyone is on the same page. I also do a bit of legislation tracking, but not much.

Again, you probably never work with people like me because we don’t usually deal with the locals - only some of the local heads, and that’s not very often.

1st Lobbyist, now union issue coordinator, oh yeah, I’ve dealt with you (or someone like you) before, many times.

I never said I was a lobbyist. I said I help lobby. And I do. It’s my job with the union. But I’m not a lobbyist, as in that’s not what I general do. For example, I was recently discussing some proposed changes to JWOD with some Congress critters, but first we had to discuss general strategy with the various other unions and non-profits and made sure everyone was on the same page in terms of strategy. That’s normally where my participation in the process ends, but sometimes, like in this case, I have to actually visit the Hill with the LC.

Again, despite your insistence, I seriously doubt that you have ever dealth with me or someone in my position ever before.

The law in most states says that concealing merchandise is illegal. You carry purchases in your hands, in a basket or put them in a cart. You don’t put them in your pocket, your purse or your backpack. If you stick something in your pocket in a store, you could walk around there for another three hours but if security comes to you and says “Is there a product in your pocket” and there is, be prepared for hell-to-pay. The statutes vary, some states consider any concealment to be the same as walking out with unpaid merchandise, some states consider it “intent to commit shoplifting” or some such. In any case, there are but a few jurisdictions where it’s flat out legal, haha, so sorry, no harm, no foul.

But simply put, it is something that children are taught and understand, grade school level stuff. Respect other people’s belongings and do not take what doesn’t belong to you. In other words: You. Just. Don’t. Do. Shit. Like. Put. Merchandise. You. Don’t. Own. In. Your. Pockets. You don’t open the boxes/bottles/packages in the store. You don’t eat food or take pills in the aisles of the store. Until it’s paid for or checked out of inventory in the assigned fashion, in the case of employee freebies, it isn’t yours.

I love that the response to a $10 theft, according to Mr. Union Official, should be the continued employment of the thief, and paying him and his manager their wages while they sit and chat about the crime with a neutral third party, which probably means a mediator whose time is probably billed out at a couple of hundred bucks a pop, all to determine if stealing from your employer is wrong. :rolleyes:

And people wonder why everything they buy costs so damn much.

I also wonder about a few things:
1.) If Mr. Shoplifting PharmD had pulled a $10 bill out of the till and stuck it in his pocket instead of a $10 bottle of pills, would there be any argument that it wasn’t theft or that he should’ve been “counseled” instead of being kicked to the curb? If there is a difference IYO, why?
2.) What if PharmD had pocketed a few Oxycontin pills, just for personal use?
3.) How many bites should a stealing employee get at that $249,000-annual-shrinkage apple that the store was being crushed under? (In other words, how many times does someone get counseled when there is no question that they are guilty?)

This whole concept of making excuses for someone who steals things is beyond my understanding. I really don’t want to live in a world where theft (for any purpose other than to save one’s life) is a “grey area” for people in positions of responsibility.

Oh, and County, spare me. My ass is supple and firm, not tight, and even if you were the last jelly donut on earth, I wouldn’t even bite you with Hillary Clinton’s filthy mouth.

Well, sometimes people WILL open something and use it right before they pay for it-usually a drink or whatever. But they don’t try to hide it by putting it in their pockets.

Wow,

Sorry I let this go on as long as I did without chiming in. Had to attend to my store, ya know? :wink:

The reason I nailed Doctor Jim was his flagrant theft of an item. I could care less that the bottle of Tylenol was a 24-count Extra Strength Geltabs (cost to us, $2.13, sold at $4.28.) What got me was 1: I had only a few hours earlier said “Cut the crap, no more stealing” and 2: my company considers any consumption of merchandise prior to making satisfactory arrangements of payment theft. 1 is a no-brainer. 2 has some odd wording, doesn’t it?

The reason that is, point blank, Jim didn’t even have to pay then. We have an employee use log which entitles every employee who had a longevity of 30 days or more to $5 in consumable merchandise daily, to be paid in full at the end of your next pay period (every other friday.) Jim could have logged it. OR BETTER YET! We have a store use log which allows use to consume products that we can justify contributed to the profitability of the store. My store has a first aid kit with everything from emergency glucose tablets, to surgical sponges, to epi-pens (PLURAL) to (badabing!) Tylenol… Why not just grab it from the first aid kit (which, BTW, is kept in the Pharmacy?) That, and he did it AGAIN at another store with another company (if my buddy Ryan isn’t lying to me…)

andymurph64: I can’t give you Jim’s personal salary, but a registered pharmacist with no experience, just out of pharmacy school, makes about $100,000/year with my company. A doctor of pharmacology (PharmD) with no experience makes between $140k and $150k starting. A cheif who is just a RPh makes between $125 and $200 k a year, and a chief who holds a PharmD makes a minimum of $200,000 a year. Not including the 6 weeks paid vacation, next to free scripts, and a benifits package which rivals that which I had in the service?

Going back to general management principles (and advice for Amber) I’d say my action was indeed draconian and not to be undertaken lightly. Whichever route you choose, make sure you stick to it and enforce it. Anyway, that’s my .02

(Oh yea, and Country? Jim IS union. They declined to defend him. Aparently, to UNION members as well, THEFT IS THEFT.)

county, can I ask a personal question?

You’re a union official. Evidently, you enjoy your job(and even willing to perform the same duties for free here on the SDMB without any foreseeable benefits to you or others IRL). Now, it so happenned that I never worked for a manager, so I ay not understand what goes on.

And yet: if what you’ve done on page three of this thread is any indicator of what you do IRL, you are hired by a group of employees to protect them from, among other things, being fired.

That’s understandable. They know that the management can hire someone else who’s looking for a job, and yet they, say, don’t like to follow the rules set by the management. But they can unionize, and hire you, and make the management negotiate with you to keep the old empleyee in, and the guy who’s looking for a that job right now out. So that’s what you do, and that’s fine - after all, it makes sense to have one guy who’s doing all these tasks.

So, you’re hired by some people to safeguard their jobs, lest these jobs go to some other people, you enjoy your work, and evrybody’s happy.

There’s one thing I don’tunderstand, though. You say to Neurotik :

Now from this I figure that, when your job is concerned, you do believe in something.

So my question to you, county, is, Just what is it that you in?

Err, “Just what is it that believe in?”

county obvioulsy, from this thread, believes that everone should bite him.

He also believes that everyone is a tightass. Whatever that is.

You damn right. I’m a fucking narc that was THANKED by the teenager who perfromed the theft of oxycontin, sold it to purchase shitloads of pot to deal both in my store and in the neighboring stores in the shopping center. You thin this was an easy decision? I spoke to my other 2 equal managers about the situation and afterwards when I was racked with guilt… because I honestly felt horrible about what had happened to him, and his subsequent troubles a few months after he was fired… my one co worker told me a damn good reason not to be guilty about any of it. A young girl, same age as the kid I had gotten fired, because of his termination, lost contact with her extremely easy supply of various illegal substances. It served as a wake up call to her, she went into rehab and now has been drug free for over 2 years now. The kid thanked me for waking him up as well… and while he took a wrong path later that took his ass to jail for attempted murder (later reduced to aggravated assault IIRC) we would go out to church functions together, movies, etc… he lost no repsect for me, defended my actions against him to his family, and tried to turn his life around as a result.

Fucking Narc… damn right… and I would do it all over again even with the knowledge that the strained relationship with my boss afterwards cost me my job due to an unexpected illness during which my position was replaced and he decided he was better off without me as an employee. He did enjoy a rather rapid inventory turnaround in his pharmacy because of my actions. The standards were raised after the unexpected audit and his shrink was minimal and compared to his previous years inventory it looked almost non existant.

People with self-respect and dignity take pride in whatever they do for work. That’s one of the things that gives them self-respect and dignity.

I don’t belive this shit. This guy is guilty of forgetting to log in a bottle of Tylenol and you call it theft. What’d he get 20 fucking years in jail. Union refuses to represent, not my union thats for sure.

And as far as believing in things - Well I believe that one manager don’t get to make a decision that as one contributor says “screws up somebody’s life and career” without it being subject to review by a neutral 3rd party - you know, a non-tightass.

Judging by the success you’ve enjoyed persuading people in this thread about your beliefs, I must suggest that this guy was damned fortunate not to have you represent him. Theft’s a minor charge, but your defence would probably be enough to get him the death sentence.

Theft:

He intentionally took a bottle of pills without the consent of the owner and swallowed some of them, thereby permanently depriving the owner of the pills the possession of the property. Black letter law theft. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Country, if he’d ‘forgotten to log a bottle of Tylenol’ then the bottle would have gone into the first aid kit. If he’d intended to log it as personal use, he would have contacted me. No, he went out, grabbed, and pocketed the product. What’s the difference between that, and some customer popping open a product and shoving the unused portion in their pocket? No, he got terminated and fined $125 in civil restitution, plus the cost of the product, as is allowable under SC law. When we were in court, the Honorable Lori Tindal offered me the choice of his punishments, eg civil restitution or thirty days jail time. I figured restitution was enough, as he wasn’t my problem anymore.