Every apartment that I have ever lived in either asked for a copy of your key to be left with the manager or that someone would be home during after the storm to move the car for the plow. From large complexes to small buildings with just barely enough room for six cars, it seems to have worked well.
But I don’t think it is so clearly understood, if it was, there wouldn’t be the ire and rage that this unspoken rule seems to produce.
I’m totally down with common courtesy greasing the wheels, but being adult, sharing like one, not making up your own bullshit special circumstances and unwritten rules, from what I can see, produces much more courtesy, hence, we never see this kind of bullshit conflict playing out on our snow covered towns and cities. So I ask you, which approach is really ‘greasing the wheels’?
Anyway it’s all kind of moot, the OP isn’t interested in having his viewpoint challenged, he only wanted the like thinking to agree and say “Poor, poor you!”
He stopped defending his bullshit position ages ago, and has now retreated to “Just shut up!” which speaks volumes to me about the defensibility of his position.
Ahhh, Boston. 
I was there over Christmas, just after the first snow storm, and while visiting had to park overnight in a “residence only” area (with a guest pass). I guess I’ve been trained properly because, although it did cross my mind briefly, we didn’t dare take the one available shoveled out spot on the street. We parked at the meters on a different street (that had been plowed out by the city) and got the hell out of there at 8am when the meters went back into effect.
Huh? What is this supposed to mean?
I’m not in the business of making worlds–that’s what people like the OP and Philster do when they believe they alone can determine how other people are supposed to act. I simply take the world as it is, recognizing that I am in control of my own actions and other people are just going to do whatever they do.
So how long does all this shoveling usually take? Like, half an hour? Ten minutes?
And, and I know this is a dumb question that a northern four year old knows the answer to… how does the snow plow driver get to work?
And where does a big shopping mall put all the snow it plows? Up in Pittsburgh where my mom’s family is I’ve seen one of those satellite crappy parking lots with giant snow mountains on them, but they don’t really get all THAT much snow as compared to, I don’t know, say Buffalo NY. Do builders up there plan for a place to put giant mountains of dirty snow?
And in those snowy places, does it melt during the winter?
Depends on the size of the lot, how long it takes, snowblower or shovel or plough? Shoveling out your walks and drive can take the better part of 40 mins for an average drive, average snow fall of over 6".
The plough driver usually has a 4 X 4 truck and knows the best route, once he has the plough going he’s clearing his own way, pretty much. The city ploughs before people are up so the roads, baring snow days, should be done, at least the major roadways, perhaps not all the side streets. You have to drive slowly and cautiously, people who live in these conditions soon develop the knack.
Malls push it all into one corner, losing parking spots in the bargain. Sometimes, they haul it away in trucks, and in some cities they have machines that scoop then melt the snow leaving only water to be disposed of. Yes, builders do plan for the mountains of snow you see. Keep in mind when the conditions are that bad, not as many cars are on the roads.
It does melt, if the temp rises, but a mountain of snow, or several inches on the ground take more than a day or two of above 0 temps to begin to melt off. It’s not uncommon, when the spring thaw arrives, that everyone’s lawns and drives, the streets all completely clear, spring flowers are beginning to bud, yet there remains, now smaller, snow mounds, now dirty to remain for weeks afterward.
Hope this helps.
It’s fascinating - right now we’ve had snow on the ground SINCE MONDAY and it’s beginning to freak me out. It’s still there! Trying to imagine a world where shoveling your car out is just like finding your car keys and putting your nametag on is wonderfully exotic.
Oh my god. You’re completely immune to explanation and reason. The reason the OP is frustrated is because it’s the convention in his complex that you shovel a damn spot. The OP is venting because, despite being aware of this unspoken rule, his neighbours would rather not shovel their own spot and use one that’s already shovelled. The fact that they don’t do it isn’t because the rule is not “completely understood”, it’s because they’re inconsiderate. Just because there’s no such convention where you live doesn’t mean that there isn’t one where the OP lives.
Just because some of us have stopped responding to your repetitive bleating about your ridiculous definition of common courtesy doesn’t mean the OP’s position is indefensible, as you seem to imagine. I, for one, have basically given up talking to you, the metaphorical brick wall.
Based on what, do you assume, the neighbours are aware of this unspoken rule? Evidence would point to the opposite. Just because he says it’s an ‘accepted’ convention doesn’t make it so.
Your reason is ‘it greases the social wheels’, so far as I can see. But it doesn’t it creates conflict, and rage and parking wars and the vitriol you see on display here.
If you think it’s defensible, defend it. Saying you won’t because I’m stubborn, thick headed or unreasonable is just avoidance. Show me where I’ve been unreasonable. I think I have presented a reasonable position on why this expectation of the OP’s is silly and conflict creating. You clearly feel otherwise. Care to defend your position rather than just call me names?
Well, *I *would think it’s okay, but I’m mainly arguing at the thought of people who routinely game the system - *never *shovel, *always * try to take a nicely shoveled lot.
You know, I think I’ve finally clicked on my problem with your argument.
You are coming down on people being upset by inconsiderate people instead of the inconsiderate people. And you’re babbling about courtesy while defending the discourteous.
I don’t think it’s logical to pretend it’s the people who are quietly raging at the rudeness (and really, he’s complained at a message board, not gone door to door to yell at people…) who are rude and immature.
Don’t see why elbows maintaining his/her position is considered “bleating” as opposed to those who simply restate a different opinion. I tend to agree with pretty much everything elbows said, with the exception of the spelling of the word PLOW. (Seriously - plough?)
This thread concerns certain peoples’ preference WRT shoveling parking spaces - essentially the manner in which they would like everyone to maintain “common” property and how they would like others to conduct themselves in public. Each of us would probably be able to compile a list of things we would like everyone to do. The recurring threads about grocery behavior come to mind.
And you know what? You probably are correct. Society would be “nicer” if everyone followed some basic courtesies. But such a society exists only in one’s fantasies - OR - where you are willing and able to make the necessary sacrifices to enjoy such treatment. If you paid to live somewhere with better snow clearing or assigned parking, this wouldn’t be a problem. If you live somewhere with restrictive covenants, everyone will maintain there property in a certain manner. But it really is pretty silly to think you can rub elbows with the unwashed masses and then complain that everyone you encounter doesn’t behave the way you wish they would. I’ll bet several people you encounter could come up with a thing or 2 that they would prefer you do differently…
I suppose that would depend on what you consider to be the ‘inconsiderate’ part.
My position is that it’s inconsiderate to not be adult enough to recognize that it’s not assigned parking and once you leave the lot you take your chances. The other adults using the lot seem to understand that shoveling out your car doesn’t give you any ownership of the spot.
That not everyone feels the need to follow the unwritten convention would indicate that it’s not as ‘widely accepted’ as the OP would like to believe.
The argument that such niceties grease the social wheels falls apart as this one would seem to instead create conflict, ire, rage and vitriol. If everyone would just adult up, as it were, accept the obvious - it’s not ‘your’ spot - the wheels would, indeed, be greased and less conflict would ensue.
Aren’t the rules of society meant to avoid conflict, not create it?
Not one defender of this nonsense has cared to address, what seems the core issue, and has been asked repeatedly, “If it’s that important to you, to make your blood boil, why didn’t you rent where there is assigned parking?”
It seems like he wants the benefit of assigned spaces without paying the premium for them.
elbows, what would you do in this situation?
You live in an apartment complex with it’s own, non-assigned, parking lot. You casually glance out your window in the morning an notice a man from another unit shoveling out his car from the 12 inches that fell last night. You recognize him as a new resident, but don’t know him personally. A half hour later, you realize you’ve forgotten an appointment and rush out the door. You get to your car and clear it off off enough to drive and rock it to get out of the spot. The other man is just finishing clearing his car after working at it for half an hour.
After your appointment you return and notice the other man pulling into the parking lot directly behind you. You can either pull back into your old spot or the one he cleared out. No others are available. Which do you take?
My position is that it’s inconsiderate to not be adult enough to recognize that the snow faerie doesn’t shovel out after you and once you leave your spot a snowy mess, you make it harder for everyone else. Therefore, you should shovel it out. Other adults using the parking lot seem to understand that shoveling around their car is the right thing to do.
You are projecting and assuming * again. I own my own house.*
I am not enraged. This doesn’t personally affect me.
I merely think people who do this are tools. Lazy and inconsiderate tools.
Speaking as an outsider – and someone with no emotional investment in this thread – I suspect that’s the root of the problem. It’s an unwritten rule, and other communities do indeed vary. How is a resident supposed to know about this unwritten rule, especially since it’s not the sort of thing that everyone is likely to discuss.
I’m not trying to take sides here. I understand the frustration of those who have poured sweat equity into a parking spot, only to find that someone else has occupied it. However, I also understand the mindset of those who treat the parking as, well, unassigned. Why should one resident be allowed to lay de facto claim to a primo parking spot everyday, for example, simply by virtue of shoveling it out?
Not elbows, but personally I would not take the spot the other guy shoveled. But I would understand that this was ME making MY OWN decision, for MY OWN reasons - and not for a second would I expect other people to do the same.
I think there is a lot of truth to the old saw that few things are less common than common sense and common courtesy. I don’t consider my fellow humans to be a terribly courteous bunch. And I don’t think there is much I can do to change that - other than to possibly set an example.
While I have little to no control over how other people think and act, I DO have considerable control over how I think and act. So I have a choice - I can either get pissed at the fact that others don’t act the way I wish they would, or I can figure out a mindset or behavior that keeps it from bothering me. I choose the latter whenever possible.
I answered this very question up thread.
Personally, I wouldn’t take his space. That said, I’m not maintaining that my behaviour obligates anyone else to behave in a similar fashion. I also bring in stray carts from the grocery parking lot, but I don’t expect others to. I do what I do because of who I am. My virtues do not obligate anyone else, via some unwritten social contract, to behave similarly.
But I would assume he is adult enough to understand that once he drives off the lot he takes his chances, just like the rest of us, and not get all butthurt over some ‘unwritten’ convention not being observed.
I believe I clearly separated ‘required’ (that which is required ‘on paper’, so to speak) versus what is correct from a point of view considering courtesy, and what makes a society that goes beyond what is ‘required’, per se, better than one that doesn’t.
The proof is embedded in the very argument, and we’ll have to irritate some social classes along the way.
Step down in social class, and there are problems routed in money (or lack there of) and there are tougher, more complex, but oft ignored social issues at play. I’ve lived in a number of interesting situations, and in different social strata.
Growing up, in my particular urban, Philadelphia middle-class neighborhood, cleared spots were never taken by one’s neighbor. It was… unheard of. How does one document that proper behavior as ‘right’ or ‘best’?
I’ve had the misfortune of later living in an apartment complex where there was no assigned parking, and the tenants were there because it was, indeed, the cheapest place to live. When I came home, I could expect to see lots of people who could be typecast for the show Cops, if they used an actual cast.
Guess what? In this pathetic and rude environment, where there was no common courtesy or sense of neighborhood before the first snowfall, the first significant snowfall was pure, living hell. Yet… no one broke the law. AMAZINGLY… through some set of intangibles that a few people here cannot possibly comprehend, those residents are all worse off for their behavior.
We can all play dumb and debate the matter over and over and over.
Pack the snow solid under their car when they park in the shoveled place. Their car isn’t going anywhere the next day.
Is that illegal? It isn’t!? Well, then it must be okay!!! –end sarcasm.