I am absolutely sick to death of the bastards. What the fuck do Gestapo Gates and the stupid idiots at Netscape think they’re doing to the web when even the simplest of fucking tables renders perfectly in one browser and looks like a bloody dogs breakfast in another. GENTLEMEN, THIS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD.
I just don’t know where to start with these idiotic oafs.
“Oh, lets include ‘this’ WC3 spec in this level browser but FUCK THE WORLD COMPLETELY OFF by not including ‘that’ in the spec”
“Oh, Netscape’s done ‘this’, lets do ‘that’ instead and then lets add another something to give us an advantage for a while” – WANKERS !!!
The web is NOT your self-serving plaything that you stupid power crazed, stuck up your own arses playing games with each other ‘cos it’s fun and we don’t give a flying fuck for the rest of the planet and we don’t want to grow up yet shit for brains.
It’s like the worst of the fucking Industrial Revolution with different trains running on different gauges and you have to try and make the bastards to run on EVERY gauge AT THE SAME BLOODY TIME. WHY !!! It’s completely unnecessary – all I can say is get a grip because at the moment I would like to shake every single one of you VERY warmly by the neck.
Sorry if anyone’s offended by this incoherent tirade I am, unfortunately, coming to the end of my tether today. I don’t often visit the Pit but I felt a need to hit the keyboard very hard and the above is what came out.
Normal service will resume shortly.
Would anyone have a good URL that would help in resolving browser compatibility problems… ?
Gee, techchick have you joined the ranks of the True Cognoscenti?
Sady, loving Opera as I do, it’s not much help in with the compatibility problem. It’s the best browser, it appears to be the most standards-compliant browser, but users learn quickly how many Web sites are coded incorrectly or coded to take advantage of the peculiar non-standards implemented by the poorer browsers.
I can’t even send email from Opera; my ISPs SMTP server insists that I log into the POP3 server before using the SMTP server (non-standard), and the SMTP servers at my two domains both require SMTP Authorization, invented by Netscape, but not implemented in Opera because it’s not a standard (it’s being considered as a standard).
But, since this is the Pit, I suppose I can say that people who don’t use Opera, especially for message boarding, are sadly misinformed goat-felchers.
I use IE, but have used Opera in the past to check coding on my sites. I need to download and register (pay) for a copy so I can verify the validity of my sites.
Except for some coding, Opera will tell you if your sites are all boogered up. If it doesn’t work in Opera chances are it will not work in one or the other big guys.
<sarcasm> Yah … I bought this awesome new car, but it only works on some streets so I pack another car with me to drive on those streets when my first car won’t work!! </sarcasm>
Pick one, love it, hate it, shut up
Any browser has problems. Every computer has glitches. Every OS is buggy. Every girlfriend bitches. Every guy fucks off with his buddies sometimes. Deal with it and move on.
OK calmed down now, made a little progress. Sorry again.
Jees Techchic, I don’t think I’d use Opera to check the coding. Every pro I’ve come across uses a really good text editor like Allaire’s Homesite or NoteTab Light because you can kill two birds with one stone (check the code for yourself and compatibility in lesser browsers). Opera, because it is the most compliant with the WC3, isn’t going to help with the checking compatibility in IE4+ or NS4+ - but what do I know, this is my first serious effort.
Opera is great and, and I agree, it is the best browser per se - especially for MB’s because it renders so fast. I love the thing, it’s got so many handy features and the price is recouped very quickly in time saved.
Jon I haven’t tried this but can’t you use Outlook 2000 (or similar) for mail and have Opera as the default browser (I’m pretty sure Uncle Bill incorporated the ability to use a non IE browser as default but he hid it somewhere in File) ?
Laz – don’t quite agree with that. Opera’s like a car that works on every street. Using it makes you realise how the poorly designed other cars lead people to drive badly. In other words, it’s an analogy that doesn’t make sense
Still can’t get these tables to sit right in NS, it’s a real bugger.
I have yet to meet anyone who uses Opera and Opera alone. If there are some, please do introduce them to me as I would be interested in hearing the reasons for their usage.
Well sure the deer in the neighborhood eat my apples and the rabbits get half of the seedling trees I plant, but I don’t mind them browsing that much. I mean, there’s plenty to…
ChiefWahoo, all you need now is a little monkey to follow you around with a little drum kit and beat out a ‘buh-dump-dum’ on the drum. That would be the perfect addition to your jokes. grin
Yeah, you can have Opera use pretty much any mail client; IE, Netscape, Eudora, Pegasus, The Bat, … I haven’t tried Outlook Express, and Outlook 97 doesn’t work for me. So I can send email by allowing one of those programs to fire up. But I’d prefer to be able to just use Opera.
I use Opera whenever possible. It has a small memory footprint, it’s fast, it handles CSS 2 better than any other browser, it handles HTML 4 at least as well as and maybe better than any other browser, it uses Sun Java for the most standard and complete Java implementation, and the MDI interface (each page displayed in a sub-window of the main window, like multiple documents in Word or multiple spreadsheets in Excel) makes more sense then Netscape or IE’s SDI interface (especially for message boards). Try running down the list of topics in one of the forums, pressing one two-key-plus-mouse-click combination on interesting titles to open a window viewing that thread, and do that for 20 threads … unless you’re using Opera, I bet you can’t do it or come close to doing it. Few computers can handle 20 Nertscape or Explorer windows open without disk thrashing; this portable (64 MB RAM) opens more windows in Opera without breathing hard. If I could use it everywhere, I would. Unfortunately, there is a significant number of improperly-coded Web pages and Web pages that rely on nonstandard extensions of certain other browsers. And there are some tricks required to get some plug-ins to work in Opera.
(The Evolution thread and Opera. Jon, I think you might play a percentage game)
OK, some more reasons for usage:
You’ve got to me pretty tech savvy (far more than me) to get the most out of Opera and whether or not it would be better depends on what you want to do.
For example, IE and NS are mono window browsers, each time you open another window a whole new instance of the programme starts whereas (as Jon says) in Opera you can literally have a hundred window open for next to no memory loss.
Opera loads maybe 10-20 % faster than IE, 20-40 % faster than NS and I forget the programme size but it’s miniscule compared with the mammoth IE.
Also, just about anything and everything is configurable.
And, yes, it is 100% HTML and CC1 compliant and virtually 100% CSS2 (at least I’m pretty sure) It’s also rated most compliant by W3C (I believe the guy responsible for writting the CCS2 standard for W3C went to work at Opera last year).
No reported security flaws, ever, as far as I’m aware.
Don’t understand you’re reluctance, Laz. It is excellent.
I think a lot of people are now using Opera when they can. The numbers are larger in Europe and I believe it sometimes shows up on logs as NS so numbers are difficult to come by. I do know a couple of major online outfits (web builder and web monkey) think It’ll be number two by the end of the year.
Like you said … you have to be pretty tech savvy to get the most out of it (which I am, but that is beside the point).
Also, I have heard (and experienced) that it does not always work when viewing sites. Now you can blame that on fault coding all you want (rightly so in most cases, I would imagine) but the simple fact remains, I have yet to hit a site with IE that IE could not handle. I keep my version mostly up to date (running 5.01 right now) and I visit tons of sites. My logic is simply, IE can handle everything I want to do, my machine can handle the processing of it (dual ppro 200 w/320Mb RAM), and it works all the time (never had a problem … not ever) so why would I want to install something that might run a little faster (not that I have speed problems), works most of the time and is not in the top two most popular browsers?
Don’t they see how IE can give most of the room back to the REAL info.
I was going to try @HOME, but when I saw the huge browser, I said, “Hey, why step back 5 years?”
Netscape wastes so much space, and when you try to shrink it, they remove all the necessary stuff first, and keep a ton of emptiness.
NeoPlanet pulls the same stunt.
Hide the title, hide the logo, hide the Mail and Search buttons, all I want is Favorites, Back and Stop, and they would fit tucked into any other line. The “launch bar” even.
With all the adds, and a huge Browser header, there’s no room for content.
