Fucking medical school

The BBQ Pit
21

ah. so he doesn’t have an iota of comapssion, and why is that? because his brother is unpopular on a message board? because he didn’t volunteer at a nursing home then write it down on his transcript like other applicants? Would you prefer he blow some smoke up your ass by doing that? You’re probably too smart to fall for that though, im sure.

How do you explain the fact that a reasonable percentage of doctors only go into the field due to the fact that a parent is a doctor? How many doctors do you think went in for the money? how many are going into fields due to the fact that one field is more lucrative than another? I have also read that there is going to be a shortage of certain types of doctors soon as many new applicants choose fields like anaestheology or dermatology, as they are less stressful. So you’re saying that this is what med schools want, kids who go into their parents vocation, do it for money, or go into the least stressful fields? i will try to dig up some stats to back my opinions up but i am on a public computer and research is hard due to the time delay.

While talking to doctors about doing it as a career my brother is sometimes told ‘dont do this for the money, if you’re going to do something for the money, become a dentist’. So he knows that medical school isn’t something to do due to money, but he is still applying there and not dental school is he not?

And the acceptance rates to med school are closer to 35%, not 4%. Maybe at your school its 4%, but nationwide its higher.

So you all will be happy to know he will most likely get in somewhere else, just not indiana, at least not this year. So complain, gang up, bitch that i talk to myself, it wont change what eventually happens. TMI? GFY.

KarmaComa - my brother is pre-med, so he has done a good deal of chemistry. He has 10 hours of introductory chem, 10 hours of organic chem, and 3 hours of biochemistry. All he has to do is take physical chemistry and analytical chemistry and he would have a BS in chemistry but he doesn’t want to. So i wouldn’t call his major ‘lazy’, as he has had to take biological & physical sciences to prepare for the MCAT.

22

Yeah, I remember it sucked having to fake that empathy shit, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. :rolleyes:

Before any GPs/family docs roll in here and rip you a new one, it is generally understood in the med biz that primary care MDs are indeed highly skilled professionals who perhaps need good interpersonal skills more critically than surgeons, but do not primarily rely on them to diagnose and treat disease.

And even in the specialties where you must relate to fellow docs more than to patients, you will have trouble succeeding without decent people skills.

Maybe a career in research is what the doctor ordered.

23

A career in research is what he wanted to do. he wanted to do surgery, then do research.

He doesn’t ‘lack’ people skills, i dont know where this idea began. He just didn’t do what the other applicants did, which was do charity work at a nursing home to pad their resume.

Bring on the GPs. Im used to this board being filled with people who cant form a thought without seeing what the popular aura is first.

24

You misspelled Personnel.

PS go fuck yourself. If i wanted to talk to useless conformist whiners i would, well, hell i’d be replying to this wouldn’t i?

25

[QUOTE=Wesley Clark]
whine, whine, whine

[QUOTE]

Interesting. You sound EXACTLY like the idiot parents who phone and harrass the office when their little darlings don’t get accepted.

"But, but, Junior is so SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART!!!"

Are you, or your brother really arrogant enough to believe that none of the other people who were interviewed had grads and MCATs as good as his? Guess what - his are “average”. They don’t suck, but sorry dude - we get about 200 applications a year with people who have a 4.0. Bro’s MCAT’s are the AVERAGE of people we accept. Nobody around here even notices unless a person has 13’s and 14’s accross the board.

Guess what, if your bro wants to get accepted based only on his academics, his academics are going to have to be better.

His other option is to develop something like a people skill.

Also, FWIW, you’re deluding yourself if you think obnoxious, non-speaking surgeons are being trained these days. Totally old school. Somewhere along the way someone realized that at some point a surgeon is actually going to have to have a consultation with a patient.

I don’t know your brother, and he probably didn’t apply to my medical school (where the acceptance rate is about 4%, thankyouvermuch), but if he was half as much of an ass in his interview as you are in this thread, I can understand why he didn’t get in.

You’re welcome.

26

HAHA. so did i. whats a personnel cabinet?

Well, it appears i have lost this battle in general and dug myself in pretty deep. Not much good info i can use or pass on to him is coming my way either.

In closing, you guys can say what you want about me. If you sincerely dislike me that is ok as long as you dislike me because i really am an obnoxious asshole, not just because the poster above you felt that way.

But why condemn my brother? you dont know him, and i never said he wasn’t compassionate, just that he didn’t pad his resume and say what the interviewers wanted to hear. He isn’t in it for the money (if he were he’d be in something else), and he isn’t doing it because his dad/mom did it, he also isn’t doing it for the prestige as he is disgusted when he sees doctors sign their name “MD” even though no one asked. I dont think he pro-actively loves people but he is not a disagreeable, inconsiderate person and he doesn’t want to go into fields where being humanistic is extremely important like GP or pediatrics. If he wanted to go into pediatrics or geriatrics or family practice i would have a problem with that but he doesnt, he has talked about neurosurgery, cardiology, and opthamology.

in closing, he will get in somewhere it just wont be Indiana University in 2004.

27

[QUOTE=alice_in_wonderland]

[QUOTE=Wesley Clark]
whine, whine, whine

My brother is not obnoxious or an asshole. It is still my understanding that a 30 is very good and a 27 is average.

i think i am overreacting, nobody deserves to get into med school just because they apply but it was a disappointment as he has been waiting for this day for 5 months.

I have talked to more than one doctor and i will quote one i talked to about his chances with his scores.

“WHen i was in medical school i didnt know anyone who got both a 33 on thier MCATs and a 3.9 GPA. congrats”.

So maybe at your school with its 4% acceptance rate 33 & 3.9 is normal, but i was under the impression they were both very good scores. I think the interviewer himself (one of them at least) commented on his scores being above most other applicants. At least here.

Medea’s Child - I dont think he cares about the money. Im just worried about him digging himself into a debt he cannot work his way out of. when i started this post i was under the impression that IU med school was 10k a year and out of state was 40k a year, i was afraid he’d run up 3x as much debt he may not be able to escape from but now that ive researched it the price difference is not that big a deal.

28

Maybe the board picked up on other things. Perhaps he came off cold during the interview process. Perhaps he stumbled on questions or beat around the bush a little too much. Maybe he came off as insensitive. Maybe they’re looking for folks with some medical experience, and your brother was lacking in that department.

Or maybe they had too many applicants from Indiana.

There’s a sour grapeness radiating from the OP. Hope your brother takes the news better than you have.

(If your brother wants to do research, that’s fine. He should be picked up easily by a quality Ph.D program somewhere. Don’t worry.)

29

Uhm, as in

You, boy wonder, are labouring under the illusion anyone cares about you or your brother on anything other than a professional level. If he lacks, or is somehow too good, to meet the exceedingly high standards then he’s done. Go into biology and work on thinfilms and their application to medical diagnostics.

Child.

30

A 34 is the average MCAT and the average GPA is 3.75. Like I said - his scores are decent but there not going to wow anyone.

FWIW, at my school, academics are no more or less important that letters of reference, volunteer and research experience and personal essay. Many schools are moving towards this model.

Basically, what you and your brother can take away from this is that because he got the interview, his academics were not the problem. Therefore, he’s going to have to give a nod towards non-academic considerations or he probably WON’T get in anywhere.

It doesn’t mean that he has to be a golden ray of sunshine, but your statements "Fucking supercilious, worthless, brainless assholes. His MCATs and GPA were more than good enough. Im sure alot of dumb shits who manipulated those dumbasses who had 3.5 GPAs and 29 MCATs got in. My brother just wasn’t willing to manipulate the board or fake like he was a super loving person like he was supposed to. " speak of an arrogance that will keep him out of pretty well any medical school. I hope, for his sake, that it’s yours, and not his.

31

Yeah thats my opinion, not his. He has never said anything like that. He has research experience in laboratories though, just no volunteer work.

32

Maybe he should, if that’s what it takes. Sounds like an idiot to me, wondering why others get accepted, and he didn’t, but YMMV.

33

:p. YMMV indeed World Eater.

I just asked him if he cared that i read his mail and he laughed and said no.

34

DING DING DING DING DING

This would keep him out of my medical school regardless of his academics.

If he’s serious he best find a nifty red and white mini and get candy-stripeing in a hurry.

35

I thought it was pretty much standard that volunteer work is almost essential for getting into professional schools. No?

My sister–the vet–volunteered at a couple of places on weekends through college. Was she working the system by devoting her free time at the humane society? You bet. But she also did it so that she’d know what she was getting into.

Perhaps the board wasn’t looking for kiss-ups as much as they were looking for people who know what they’re getting into. They don’t want someone who wants to be a doctor only because their favorite show is ER.

Wesley Clarke, are you planning on going to med school? If so, I hope you learn from your brother’s mistakes. “Working the system” is not being dishonest. It’s not being any more dishonest or obsequious than getting good grades or studying for the MCAT. It’s simply doing what you have to do to get where you wanna be. You are going to have to jump through all kinds of hoops in life. Some of them are going to seem unfair, but complaining about them won’t make them go away.

[/sancitimonious lecture]

I’m sorry about your brother’s rejection, though. I know how bad it feels.

36

Yeah i think your first part may be true, they they are looking for someone with personal experience in the subject. And perhaps jumping through hoops by doing charity work would’ve been his best bet and he probably would’ve gotten in had he done that.

Im never going to med school, hell no. Money & prestige mean nothing to me. PLus the 80 hour workweeks seem insane.

did you get rejected from professional graduate school(s) at some point in your life?

he seems to take it pretty well, so thats good. I guess he saw it coming ever since the interview.

Thanks for your reply.

37

You’re welcome.

I was rejected from a grad school, only one of three that I applied to. It hurt only because I had never been rejected from anything before. It wasn’t like my dream school. Ohio State is a punk school anyway. :slight_smile:

My sister got rejected from UGA’s vet school, which was sort of her “back up”. I remember how hard she cried after she got the letter. I remember feeling so sad for her sadness, and I was kinda scared she wouldn’t get to fulfill her dream of being a veternarian. But it all worked out in the end. She graduated last year from an excellent school and has a great job now, and we look back on the stressful times and laugh.*

It occurred to me that it may be good for your bro to go to an out-of-state school. It’s a more exciting and maturing process to live far from home, and lots of good things may come his way that wouldn’t be there if he stayed in boring-ass Indiana. Look at it as something that’s “meant to be”.

*Her stressful times. I’m still in mine!

38

So are you in grad school now? Must be fun, esp. if its a science degree.

I think an out of state school would be best for him too. I think he’d like New england or California more than Indiana. When i made the original post i was under the impression that IU was 10k a year and out of state was 40k, i was afraid he would bury himself in debt and never be able to work his way out of it. But now i see that that is not the case, he would only run up another 30k or so on top of his 115k hed have in indiana.

Thats if he decides to go to medical school. He may just stay in math or do something different entirely. He says right now he just wants to find a factory job and work there, and live off the wages while he tries to think about what he does next in life. Hopefully he will come up with something, as having to choose your vocation for life in your early 20s is very stressful.

It sucks. the early 20s is one of the most stressful, impovrished, confusing periods of a persons life. No wonder alcoholism & suicide rates are so much higher among people this age.

39

So, your brother has NO PATIENT EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER, and you’re wondering why he didn’t into his med school of choice? Well, I’ll tell you why he didn’t get in. It’s because he has no patient experience whatsoever, and there are other applicants who have comparable academics who do have patient experience. Trust me, baby, hearing about what it’s like is absolutely nothing like getting in there and getting your hands dirty. People who have never dealt with patients have a higher rate of ditching med and vet school, and the schools certainly have no intention of wasting their spots on people who are more likely to quit.

The first time I didn’t get into vet school, it was because I didn’t have as much practical experience as other candidates. Although I was a highly qualified applicant, there were enough candidates who were more qualified to fill the class. It’s not anybody’s fault (except maybe mine), it’s just the nature of competitive admissions.

If your brother is truly serious about being a doctor, he needs to make himself a stronger candidate than everyone else. He’s strong academically, but apparently sub-par (as compared to the other candidates) in his interview skills, and he’s non-existent in his patient skills. He can say he’s compassionate till he’s blue in the face; other candidates have been out there showing compassion. Which do you think is more effective in demonstrating that you’re a compassionate person? Compassion is essential to being a good doctor, and if there are candidates who come off as making better doctors than him, they’re going to be admitted before him.

If your brother is truly serious about being a GOOD doctor, he needs to develop a taste for dealing with patients. I don’t care what specialty he wants to go into, dealing with patients is a big chunk of being a doctor, and doing it well is integral to being a good doctor. If your brother is purely interested in the workings of the body and not the person as a whole, he needs to go into biotech research, and stay the hell away from patients.

As for his major potentially hurting him, I don’t think that’s an issue at all. Being outside the biology/chemistry box can be an asset; it makes you stand out from the crowd. My husband was a math major, with something like a 3.5, and he got into his school of choice, early admission. I don’t remember his MCAT score, but it was something respectable but not stellar. Was he a dumbshit suckup? No, he was a well-rounded individual with respectable academics, great interpersonal skills, and a demonstrated desire to deal with people who need help. In other words, he was what people want in a doctor. He’s turned out to be a much, much better physician than many of his classmates who had higher GPA’s.

40

I hate to break it to you, but the early 20s is no more stressful and confusing than any other time in your adult life. Welcome to adulthood!