Future EV/Hybrid Plans, AWD edition!

In My Humble Opinion
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I know we have a ton of these threads, but this one is a bit more specific to myself and the spousal unit, so I figured I’d create a new thread to further investigate our options.

Setup: since the wife finally finished her PhD and nearly immediately secured a job with a decent income, we’re finally ready to consider retiring my vehicle, a 2002 Subaru Outback Sport with 120k on it. It’s done well by us, but has ongoing issues that to repair would be several times what the vehicle is worth.

For years, we’ve been wanting to go with electric and/or plug in hybrid options, and now we’re in a position to do so, although many years of future student loans and other costs means we’re going to want the most affordable option that meets our needs.

So the current plan is to get one new vehicle, for my wife, who has a pretty extended if just barely in town commute, and I’ll take over her current car, a 2011 Rav4 (conventional). Then, 3-5 years down the line, we’ll replace the Rav 4 with another all electric or PHEV.

But, we have a couple of issues with our plans to date. One, we live in central Colorado Springs, in a noticeably hilly area. Which means that while 90% of the time front wheel drive is plenty, a solid 10% of the time, AWD is a must. And that requirement substantially reduces the number of EV and PHEV vehicles available. Secondly, we do on average one trip a year which requires 630 miles of direct driving, and several a year that are about 250 mile round trips, several of which are during the winter where EV range is reduced.

So our plans have evolved into having one all electric vehicle for my wife with her longer commune, and one PHEV as my daily driver and the vehicle of choice for those relatively few times that the IC range is a benefit.

With all that out of the way, we’re currently looking at three possible vehicles, and your input is greatly appreciated:

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 (All Electric)

The Kia EV 6 (All Electric)

And the Toyota Rav 4 (PHEV)

(I also have a fondness for the Subaru CrossTrek PHEV, but acknowledge it’s tiny all electric range makes it a poorer overall choice)

So, not immediate, and we’ll of course have to wait to take delivery when we finally take the plunge, but if anyone has practical advice on the best choice or qualified alternates (and I fully acknowledge circumstances may well change by the time we buy the 2nd vehicle) for our needs, please share!

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Supplemental: We own (well, we and the bank) our own home with a 2-car garage, so that factor applies in terms of at home charging and support. Was probably obvious from context, but just in case.

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Also consider the option of using a rental for your long trips. Lots of people fall into the trap of “I have a perfectly good vehicle at home, why would I pay not to use it.” but if that opens up more vehicle options, then it is worth keeping in mind.

Having said that, as long as fast charging is available on your routes and additional charging at your destination, then long trips in the EV aren’t going to be a big problem.

As for winters, snow tires should be on your list, gas or electric. They make all kinds. You don’t need super aggressive studded tires to handle snowy days in the city. You can get snow tires that are much better than all seasons for those days they’re needed, but are also reasonable for the majority of the winter when roads are dry.

That’s just a long way of saying your requirements seem to be well within the capabilities of modern EVs.

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No disagreement, but not sure about your earlier point. Do you mean that I should consider a 2WD EV with appropriate tires to be an adequate in-town substitute for an AWD option, and thus widening my choices?

As for the PHEV option for one of the two vehicles, I agree it’s not a perfect choice, although at the current and projected cost for rentals, it would be heartbreaking but not an absolute dealbreaker. For that matter we considered a more pragmatic option - a one week trade with my mother and father in law who live in town for one of their IC vehicles for the duration of the trip. (Gotta think outside the box!).

After all, there is the sound argument that a PHEV gets you the best and Worst of both worlds, as you have two different sets of things that can go totally wrong!

But, back to the point of the thread, the PHEV Rav4 gets a decent all electric range (not great, but enough) and is approximately $10k less (factoring in all incentives, etc) for the features in question. Is $10k savings worth the additional possible long-term complications and the environmental damage that IC vehicles represent? Not sure, we’re both pondering - and thus the thread to solicit more ideas/vehicles/alternatives!

As for the charging on the way / destination if we did do the single long trip all electric, we’d probably stick to the rental/borrowed option as the drive is long enough that factoring an extra 2 charging stops (approx) would almost certainly require splitting the drive over two days with an overnight somewhere in the middle, which is prohibitive both in lost time and expense. The 250 mile roundtrips are less of an issue, which is why I largely disregarded them, even if they are much more frequent.

ETA - I do want to be clear, we’re just going back and forth between one day having 2 all electric vehicles or one all electric and one PHEV with enough all electric range to cover the normal daily commute. Not 2 PHEV or some combination of an electric/PHEV and an IC vehicle.

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For what it’s worth… I currently drive a Kia Sorento. I test drove the EV6 earlier this year. It drove nicely. I didn’t seriously consider it mostly because it has noticeably less cargo space, and at least the one I was driving didn’t even have roof rails to support a roof rack.

Kia does make a hybrid Sorento - I don’t recall if it is plug-in. There is an EV9 on the horizon which may be interesting to me, at least, when I’m ready to look for real in a few years.

Kia’s rapid charge numbers, on the right equipment, are impressive. It wasn’t clear to me how likely it would be to find the right charges, and it’s not very important if your major use case is daily charging at home anyway.

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I’m in New England, and I’ve found that good snow tires on a FWD car generally will get you through anything that doesn’t require ground clearance.

We have a 2010 Outback with 190K on it, which will need to be replaced in the near future. We ski nearly every weekend, including some trips 5 hour drips to Maine and northern VT, as well as getting to remote trailheads that require some ground clearance and AWD. I’m expecting to replace the Outback with a hybrid SUV, plug-in if possible. For long distances and remote areas, we feel that’s our best option with the current EVs on the market.

When my wife’s 2008 Prius dies we’ll replace it with an EV town car.

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Thought you where in Colorado Telemark. New England, Telemark, steel edges for sure.

I live at 11,200 feet. Colorado. We get a LOT of snow. Ground clearance is a HUGE factor for me.

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Have you considered the Tesla Model Y?

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Check to see if your homeowners insurance will cover your house being burned to the ground as a result of a car charging fire. Not sure if they’re really making that an exception.

I think the future holds better prices and value for EVs. You should drive your Subaru into the ground and pay down loans before this investment unless you’re driven to buy cars on impulse like I am.

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Well, I don’t see the specs for ground clearance, but it looks really low. Can’t see it bashing through a foot of snow. And It’s way too small over all.

Current ride is a 2019 4Runner Off Road. I wish it had more ground clearance.

The SUV type is good for me because I haul dogs around. Among others things. Couple of sheets of plywood on the roof, no problem.

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Depending on your budget, the Model X might work. Much larger inside than it appears, AWD, and good (and adjustable) clearance.

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I guess I really shouldn’t be here. Because my wife and I drive our cars into the ground. It’s hard to describe where we live. It is on a county road, but we are the very last to get plowed out, if at all. I plow it a few times a year. Only one other full time resident on the road.

The Model X looks interesting. Ground clearance goes to 8.1" so, not bad. Gull wing doors would work pretty well for dogs I suppose.

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I guess I’m not sure what you’re looking for exactly, but per the requirements in the OP the Model Y seems to be a “qualified alternative.” A quick lookup of specs (all from manufacturers’ web sites except for Tesla from Car & Driver).

Car                  Clearance (in)    Passenger Space (cu ft)   Cargo Space (cu ft)
Hyundai Ioniq 5      6.1               106.5                     27.2
Kia EV 5             6.1               103.0                     24.4
Tesla Model Y        6.6               106                       30.2
Toyota RAV 4 PHEV    8.1               98.9                      37.5

Both Model Y alternatives in the US are AWD.

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4Runner has 89.7 cubic feet of cargo space. 9.6 inches of ground clearance. But I’m not really looking at the moment.

Two people, two 65lb dogs and luggage. Food for the dogs for 3 weeks each. All comfy, and not too crowded.

I consider it adequate. Good vehicle. Locking rear differential and other features for the deep snow that is the ‘road’ to our house. The next step is a Uni-Mog. I actually toyed with that idea for a while. But, um, no.

Don’t want a pick up truck because of the dogs. They stay in the vehicle.

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I was confused by your post until I realized you are not the OP lol. My reply is directed at @ParallelLines.

FYI, good reference for the federal tax credit program.

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Well the apologies are from me. I shouldn’t be in this thread.

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I’ve been driving an Audi Q5e, an all wheel drive PHEV with about 25 miles of battery range, for three years now. My regular driving rarely exceeds the 25 mile battery range for any given trip so nearly all of my mileage has been electric. I typically fill the ICE tank about once a month.

For me, the PHEV makes a lot of sense, but the practicality of a PHEV diminishes rapidly as the length of your typical trip exceeds the range of the battery.

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Sorry, was up faaaaar too late last night and getting started today has been difficult!

Quick multi-reply to everyone’s help.

@Digital_is_the_new_Analog - good to hear the Kia EV6 drives well, it’s currently my wife’s slight favorite. We do intend to test drive (although test vehicles along with other stock can be vanishingly low right now) all of contenders to make sure the vehicle is a good ‘fit’ when time allows.

@Telemark - I more or less agree with you when it comes to level, or even moderately inclined roads. But Colorado Springs in general (and our area in particular) has some roads that suffer from major inclines, to the point that the main road between our home and the interstate (I-25 the major North / South route for traffic) often sees FWD cars sliding backwards down the hill in icy conditions. But our microclimate is generally more forgiving when it comes to deeper snow than happens around us, so I’m not particularly worried about clearance.

This video covers our general area (and in one segment our road in particular) to give you an idea. Note, the snow isn’t all that deep, but tends to pack and get icy. And absent AWD, FWD is absolutely better, but even they can be chancy depending on the hill!

@cardinal_fang and @Procrustus - Prior to Tesla’s major price cuts, they were more expensive that the alternatives, and I hadn’t reconsidered. Musk’s stench as a person still taints Tesla for me, but I really should balance that out with all the other factors, so I think I’ll at least update all my research, thanks for the suggestion.

@TriPolar - as I recall, my wife did check with the Homeowner’s carrier, and there weren’t any major issues, but we should absolutely double check. Although I’m sure they can and would find any exception they can get away with under normal circumstances, especially if you use custom / non-standard installation. As for driving my Subie into the ground, that’s exactly what I’m doing. The last time it went in for an oil change, they didn’t want to release it as they considered it a risk for imminent failure due to leaking gaskets.

@enipla - I spent enough time visiting family at their cabin in Cotapaxi Colorado to fully appreciate the mountains, elevation and roads (if you can call them that in some cases!) that lead to your needs. Absolutely clearance would be a must. And you have every right to be in the thread if you’re interested, just not sure that the current crop of AWD EVs or PHEV are a good choice for your specific circumstances right now.

@Yosh99 - I agree 100% with your review that a PHEV’s value is in direct relation to how much of it’s electric range covers your daily drive. That’s why despite my (and Colorado in general’s) fondness for Subaru, I just can’t justify the 17 mile all electric range on the Crosstrek PHEV. It wouldn’t quite cover my commute, and the wife’s is longer, which is why we want all electric for her.

The Rav4 I listed claims 42, which by our estimates would more than cover my daily driving completely, and/or 80% of my wife’s commute (fudge factor for her includes the traffic issues associate with her commute times).

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It’s not a plug in, but the Honda CRV is available as a hybrid and AWD. I have an older IC CRV and have found it to be a good car for longer trips.

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A conventional hybrid isn’t completely off the table, but the long distances involved in the sprawling cities of the southwest, combined with the interstate being the main North / South travel route means that a traditional hybrid is going to be functioning as an IC almost all of the time, so we don’t generally consider it an improvement in the way a PHEV/BEV would be.