Yeah, my wife and I stop as little as possible. Just gas and bathroom. We might do drive through fast food and eat in the car.
While I agree with your conclusion, I was surprised by this. Two hours is at most 130 miles. We haven’t taken many long trips with our EV, but I’d say we stop 2.5 to 3 hours. (and could go longer, but I’m still a little shy about going too low on range).
For us there are several things that play into this:
- Biological
- We end up stopping about every 1.5 hours, even when not charging
- If an option, we might take the biological stop at a supercharger we would have otherwise skipped
- Distribution of superchargers
- On the western and rural routes I’ve done long trips on, we usually are forced to stop at every charger, because they are about 100-130 miles apart, so it isn’t practical to skip ones
- Effective range
- After battery degradation, the maximum rated range of my car is 284 miles (from 310)
- “Efficiency” is about 84%, which means on my last trip, on average I got 84% of the rated range, or stated inversely, traveled miles took 119% of rated miles
- Driving to 0% isn’t practical, so leave a 5% buffer
- So the observed effective maximum range of my car is 226 miles
- Filling to 100% takes a long time
- Charging completely is only practical on long meal or overnight stops
- Charging to 70% is about 166 miles of effective range
- I don’t remember what exact battery percentage charging speed drops below 100kW, but it’s somewhere between 60% and 80%, and it just gets slower from there
- So driving from 70-10% battery is a 138 miles of travel which is 1.75 hours at 80 MPH
People who travel in areas with a denser charging network will tend to drive from about 5-55% battery, so they make frequent, but very short stops, because a 250kW charger can add 50% range in 10-12 minutes. My most recent trip was almost all 150kW superchargers, though.
Update, part 2.
Don’t you hate it when you’re smart enough to do the right thing, but it still turns out to make the whole thing worse? 
So, the wife contacted me after the electrician came in to check how much time / money / effort would be involved in setting up the level 2 charger for the garage (this is the part of us being smart, as this is before we’re BUYING anything).
And the answer wasn’t happy making. The problem isn’t the layout or anything like that, but that our electrical panel is original to the house (built 1982) and hasn’t been made for multiple decades. While obsolete it’s not showing any signs of failure, but is already doing it’s best to deal with modern demands of A/C, electric stove and the like.
They said they’d be willing to do the install as-is, but only with a contract clearly stating that they would not provide any implicit or explicit guarantee to the functionality of the work or consequences to the rest of the house.
Now honestly, my wife is far better with things such as this than I am, so I don’t consider it likely at all they were trying to take advantage of her, but we’ll get a second opinion just in case. Still if correct, it means we’d need to be looking at an entire panel replacement and associated costs first.
So here’s hoping my beloved Subie keeps soldiering on for a while longer, because the panel replacement would not be cheap, and would require getting the city to sign off on bringing the house up to code.
Good thing I can have a few drinks tonight!
I thought the same thing. My inside panel is full.
If you have an exterior electric meter. It may have some open spots for 220. Mine has 8 open bays right under the meter.
If there is a panel/door under your electric meter. Open the door up and see if it’s full, or empty.
Or, it might be possible to add an exterior panel under the electric meter. If the meter is on the garage, Bob’s your uncle.
I’m learning from these experiences. I had no idea. We had an electrician at our house for something, and we just asked “can you add a EV charger?” He said “sure,” and it was done the next week. Didn’t cost much, and has run without a hitch for five years now. I didn’t realize that apparently a lot of houses are at capacity for electrical use. I never gave it a thought and assumed it was as easy as buying a freezer to put in the garage.
Yeah, while we use propane for primary heat - a ‘wood’ stove, and an in-floor hydro system. We also have two rooms using in-floor electric. And an all electric kitchen and laundry.
We have baseboard electric that we only use in dire circumstances.
Our inside panel, is pretty much maxed out. That’s when I discovered the extra bays under the meter.
I’ve got an upcoming 675 miler. Leave after work Fri PM, about 275 miles to the motel, getting in ≈ 11:30pm. There’s a gas station by the entrance to the hotel’s driveway & I can be back to full (300+ range) in 4 mins. I’ll be back on the road no later than 6:30am to do the last 50+ miles to the event. Last time I was there, the motel didn’t have EV chargers, & even if they did, I wouldn’t trust getting to use it overnight arriving so late, whether that be another EVer charging overnight or just an ICE parked there for the night.
I then need one more 4 min refueling stop ≈ 2/3rds of the way home. A 300 mile EV give you about 180 miles on OTR charges (from 20%-80%). The trip is almost all rural, probably 2/3rds highway but very little interstate. Not only would I need a two more charges but I’m guessing out there I might need to drive out of my way to get to the charger in town rather than the gas station that’s in one case is only 50’ out of my way, adding even more time to the trip.
I’ve done this event a number of times & it’s about 50/50 whether I stop for dinner on the way home (ie. too fried to continue driving & need a break). Doing it in an EV would guarantee I’d need a dinner break, adding even more time on the road & more ‘fryedness’ once I finally do get home (it gives you a mental break from behind the wheel but I don’t like going from sitting in a car to sitting in a restaurant as I’m still sitting for hours). This is one of seven or eight 500-milers & double that 300 milers I’ll do this year, which is a normal year for me. I also work from home & do < 10 miles M-F many weeks, it’s all weekends for me Until the charging network improves, especially in rural areas & charging times come down I just don’t see me getting an EV.
That makes sense. Not the best type of car for what you need. But for many, (like me) it’s perfection.
Yep, like I said, if you’re counting minutes, EVs are never going to win, and if that is your only requirement, then you’ll never be satisfied with an EV. If, however, you’re counting dollars, EVs will usually win.
The trick I found is to get a hotel near-ish a supercharger. I’ll prefer hotels that have charging (cost, etc. being equal, which it often is). Being near a supercharger means that even if the hotel’s chargers are full or broken, I have another option.
Tesla superchargers cover most places most people go, but that leaves lots of places not many people go without good charging coverage. So that event in far northern Montana? Better have an alternative way to charge lined up ahead of time. Completely understandable that you go where you want to, not where there is convenient charging.
On the rural highways I traveled in Texas (287, as discussed above), the chargers are at the gas stations 50’ from the highway. Chargers tend to be at places, not just randomly out in the middle of nowhere. In Wyoming they’re at hotels or shopping centers in towns along the highway. Unless you have an alternative back road route that cuts a corner or something, if there are chargers, they’ll be near the highway. Perhaps not as close as the closest gas station, but about as close as the gas stations that don’t have an extra “close to the highway” price bump.
So, as mentioned many times in EV threads, if you have certain requirements where an EV is not suitable, the question becomes is it better to get all of the advantages of an EV for the rest of your trips, and rent for the few times it doesn’t work, or to get something other than an EV. Compare: Every few years I go to my cousin’s in rural North Dakota; we use the 25 foot travel trailer 15+ times a year.
I’ve needed a 20 foot box truck a few times, but it would be silly to use one as my daily driver because I’m going to have to help my Dad move later this year.
I don’t drive that much, the longest is 200 mile round trip a few times a month. Most of my other drives are about 50 miles. Except for the occasional cross country trek.
My concerns are also the shit ton of snow we get. ~30 feet a season. And we have no garage. I could get the electric plug in figured out I suppose, but would add a bit of PITA with all the snow we get.
When I look up ‘All Electric SUV’, it brings up a bunch of cross overs. Sorry, that’s not an SUV.
Electric truck won’t work because of hauling dogs. The will NOT rid in back.
The only one I can think of is the Rivian R1S. GM announced an Escalade EV, but it’s not here yet, and it doesn’t appear to be based on the full sized truck platform.
The nice thing about an EV in the snow is you can remotely warm it up and melt the snow off the windshield without being a “puffer”.
I would sooner buy a Fred Flinstone mobile than a Tesla.
- I despise that console.
- They have the greatest reputation for fitment,
- The stench of Musk,
- I don’t think they look all that good, either.
- (Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
)
The one thing they do have going for them is a far superior, up-til-now, proprietary charging network. With the fairly recent announcements that other manufacturers will have access to their network it, what, doubles, triples the number of charging locations. Once that happens, a Hyundai or a Honda or…has much more appeal as I may very well have a supercharger near the hotel.
Adding an extra 1½ hrs will change that trip from barely doable (I’m toast when I get home) to unbearable & probably require a Sat night hotel somewhere but if I could start out with with a full 300 miles of range on Sat morning., which probably only means one stop on the way home that’s a big difference.
Did you see the price tag on that Escalade EV? - Starting at $130!
Sure, but that’s what Escalades cost. The V is even more expensive, and will likely have worse performance than the EV. We’re waiting (still) for our Lyriq. No idea when we’ll get it, but hopefully soon. AWD, 500HP, 7+ inches of clearance,
I have not actually looked at the F150 Lightning, but I am familiar with the standard ICE F150 with the four doors. The seats fold completely up leaving a huge, flat open space that multiple dogs can ride in. So, if the Lightning is the same, dogs could definitely ride within the cab. We had two dogs riding on one side of the back with someone in the other side of the back and it worked well. I even rode back there. This was two larger hunting dogs (lab and a pointer).
Further update.
Received the panel replacement and state 2 charger installation estimate. $7.5-$10k US, so major setback. We will get a second estimate, just in case, as well as ask an electrician in the extended family to do a review but quick internet research seems to find it in-line with the norms. We can manage it with some financing, but doing that and taking on the debt to purchase a new vehicle, especially one in the $50k+ range is a big nope for us right now. 
In a better world, we’d just get the work done and put off buying another vehicle, but I can all but hear the voice of Pratchett’s Death in my head each morning “SUBARU, COME WITH ME” so that’s not a practical choice either.
So, looks like we’ll change gears and reverse into the future. In other words, we’re talking about flipping the order of our planned purchases. Switch to getting a PHEV Rav4 ASAP, which even with just overnight level one charging, cover a lot of my wife’s daily commute. Then when we have a bit more financial breathing room, get the electrical work done, and finally in 4-5 years (longer than intended, but an extra 7.5-10k in costs does that) get the BEV and be back where we intended.
Granted, we’ll almost certainly have more choices in AWD BEV by then, and a further maturing of technology. But like many compromises, this one feels uncomfortable.
Well, so be it, some improvement is better than saying F— it and just going for another cheaper ICE only option. And who knows, $10k might fall out of the sky, although if I could arrange for a larger amount in non-skull crushing volumes, that would be helpful.
Cadillac’s website show 2023 Escalade’s starting at $80,795.
You could get a base ICE Escalade + an Ionic & still have money left to install panel upgrade for level 2 charging. $50m extra for an EV variant is crazy!
Escalade V starts at $150k, and that’s what you’d probably cross-shop with the EV version for performance? I dunno–I’m not looking for that vehicle. Looking forward to the Lyriq if it ever shows up, however.
I doubt any electric vehicle costs fifty million dollars, extra or not.