Would parents have to sign a slip allowing their child to participate in school clubs? Would this be a specific slip for each club, or a general permission slip?
How would teachers be able to verify that this was actually the parents’ signature, as opposed to one forged by the student? That happens pretty regularily with absence excuses, etc., for example. Or is that the extra paperwork burden on teachers’ that opponents have been talking about?
Seems like a pretty unworkable process, generally. But it might work as an intimidation tactic to keep kids from participating in such clubs. And I can see a right wing principal making a special effort for this club; calling each parent and asking if they really signed the permission slip.
Well, I don’t like to do violence to my culture in order to pacify others; for one thing, it rarely works. It’s like when people say that we should do away with Pride, because it “misrepresents” queer life; the answer is that it only does so if one takes a carnival to be representative of the other 364 days of the year, which is the act of a facile intellect. The response to that is to educate others, not to give up our own way of life and understanding.
Well, writing books is only one way of interacting with culture. Reading books is another. Knowing that someone wrote a book is a third. To know that Atwood wrote Alias Grace is a way of interacting with Canadian culture.
But what would it necessarily mean for NAMBLA to be a part of a Queer culture? Does it mean that queer people approve of NAMBLA? Surely not. You needn’t approve of things of which you have cultural knowledge.
There’s no need to get all deconstructionist; just because everyone participates in something differently doesn’t make that thing unreal. Canadian culture isn’t unreal just because it’s different for everyone.
You still can. I’ve kissed a few straight boys in my time
Um, that’s an example of misinterpretation of American culture as being something that preempts and defines someone, which is exactly what I’m critiquing (as well as the questionable assumption that American culture involves a commitment to loudmouthed arrogant jerkiness). An enlightened point of view finds a middle ground between everyone being the same and everyone having no common knowledge whatsoever other than the most basic literal fact of their nationality, or their sexual orientation.
Nothing ever is, but one does the best one can.
It depends where you are and how you’re using it. In Montreal, the use of the word queer is almost completely uncontroversial now (in either the alphabet-soup meaning or the cultural meaning).
You’ll find that self-hatred and religious tribulation are major cultural referents in Queer culture, since many of us have gone through it. That said, I would rather say he’s not a part of Queer culture as the term is usually used, much as a Korean baby who’s adopted, lives abroad, and hears little about Korea can’t be said to be participating in Korean culture.
In Canada, we like to think of Canadian culture as being multicultural (yes, kind of ironic, and also not fully lived up to), so that “fully Canadian” is sort of an odd concept; being an immigrant Canadian is a way of being Canadian.
I’d rather think of it as facets or parts of a culture, since the different parts are usually aware of each other and of the whole. I may not agree with Log Cabineers, but I certainly recognize that the LCR is an element of Queer culture.
Right.
Also true; I doubt one queer in a hundred over here, for example, has heard of Marta Sánchez, despite how well-known she is among Spanish Queers.
Like I said: “Queer culture” is a mass-noun; it indicates that there is cultural knowledge attached to the fact of queerness. “Culture” is not the same as “a culture.” It doesn’t mean it’ll be the same in every society, or that an identifiable Queer culture is not multifaceted. Just like if you say “human culture” or “popular culture” (or even “culture”), it doesn’t mean it’s the same the world over.
Also, as before, even if I refer to a specific Queer culture, it doesn’t mean that all queers in its ambit experience it the same way, or participate in it to the same extent. Not all Western queers are part of Western Queer culture.
As I say, that is something to be met with education.
Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past them. Frankly, to me this falls in the same category as those schools that ban all extracurricular activities in order to ban the GSA from meeting. It’s sad, really.
This is, I think, the crux of our debate here.
I feel that education is good, but it will take too long if not done in conjunction with memetic engineering.
You feel (rightly) pride and a sense of community in who you are, and don’t want to give that up or change your memes because of ignorant bigots. I apologize if I was in any way insensitive to your considerations.
I’ll ponder this issue some more. I’ve not been involved with queer studies at any university I’ve been at, so this is my first real exposure to this branch of memetics. You’ve at least made me question my stance, but I do not grok in fullness. Waiting is.
P.S. I’m sure there are other points on which we diverge, and I’ll think about it some more. I’m going to try not to post because, to be perfectly honest, I’m not quite sure of where I stand right now and I’d rather not have to post a lot and then retract.
You have taken right action at cusp. The Old Ones are pleased!
JFTR, as an Anglican I had my own SIASL experience recently, for the same cause as Mike: a bunch of Primates acting viciously towards each other. [wry, sad smiley]
matt: thank you very much. I think I’m a bit like Mike though, when I’ve got something that needs to be resolved, I withdraw and meditate on it. (Something’s that’s driven more than one girlfriend nuts.)
I may very well take you up on your offer, but I need to sort things out in my head first. Thanks for helping me question my perceptions.
Poly: I got some bad news today, and you made me smile. Thank you for that. And I’m sorry to hear about your experience… crazy planet of the apes we’re living on. Oh, and, what’s a SIASL?
[QUOTE=FinnAgainPoly: I got some bad news today, and you made me smile. Thank you for that.[/quote]
I’m happy that that little witticism was there when you needed it. Stuff like that is part of what makes it worthwhile.
SIASL = Stranger In A Strange Land, of course. My experience was being enlightened as to human behavior a bit further by Primates (Archbishops) acting like primates (the monkeys Mike observed). Just a small pun, with a bit of a barb on it.
