About a year ago we bought a house built circa 1960. Had a professional inspection done and all that sort of stuff.
Anyway, we have decided to upgrade the air conditioning.
Problem is no one will touch or cut through asbestos- which I can understand.
The house is in the period when asbestos was used but we don’t have a clue what the walls or ceilings are composed of- and there have been various extensions and add ons.
So we have booked some expert to come out and do lab tests on parts of the house.
It is something I never really dreamed of - and nothing I catered for.
I’m sure it’s not covered, but you might look at your insurance paperwork to see if they’d pay for the abatement. A few minutes of flipping through some paper work or a quick phone call is worth it considering the worst* that can happen is that you’ll be told no and the best that can happen is that you’ll get thousands of dollars of work done for the cost of your premiums going up by few dollars a month.
Also, keep in mind that once you have testing done you ‘legally’ know that you have asbestos so now you, by law, have to disclose that if you sell your house. Personally, since you know you have it, I wouldn’t do the testing until I’m ready to do the abatement.
*Actually, the worst that can happen is that you’ll be told ‘no we don’t cover that, but we have to raise your premiums now that we know that stuff is there, call us back when it’s gone’.
Asbestos risk is exaggerated. With proper protection, there is no real threat presented by cutting or removing it. A company has to worry about liability, so refusing to touch it is their safest bet, so I would try hiring an individual to do your installation. With a full-face respirator, gloves, etc. and thorough dust cleanup, nobody will be in danger.
Once you “officially” have asbestos, you will have to disclose this if you ever sell your house, plus removing it could actually be more dangerous than leaving it alone, as it would stir up dust.
That is horrible, awful, terrible unsafe advice that no one should take. What happens when the workers leave and the homeowners turn on their new air handler and kick up any dust that’s still left behind?
Personally, I’d rather hire an abatement company for way too much money than have ‘an individual’ hack in my new AC and wipe down the walls and floor with a wet rag and risk giving my family cancer.
Why is the homeowner ignoring any dust left behind in your scenario and just flipping on the air handler?
It is dangerous to inhale asbestos particles and it is dangerous to let them enter your body, yes. But they are not radioactive. It isn’t dangerous to simply be near asbestos that is encapsulated in flooring, siding, drywall, etc. It is not dangerous to handle it if you use a respirator, gloves, and other proper protection.
What do you think your “abatement professionals” will be doing that leaves your home magically safe and asbestos-free? If they remove your flooring, drywall, etc. they will do so wearing proper safety gear and releasing asbestos into the air you and your family will later be breathing. They will clean up the dust and they will check the air quality. Obviously they aren’t done until it is within legal limits.
Now you’ve stirred up a bunch of asbestos dust for no reason at all and are putting your family at more risk, plus you just gave away an enormous pile of money, lost significant resale value on your home, and had everything in your home turned upside down, all in the name of maintaining your illusion of safety.
Several years ago, my wife and I decided to do a fairly significant remodel of our house. Of course asbestos was discovered. Some in the oldest remaining duct work (suggesting that some had already been removed in the past), and plenty in out awful popcorn ceilings. Our abatement estimates were over $20,000 as I recall.
Already being at the ragged edge of our budget, we elected to leave alone anything in a room not touched by the remodel. For the ducts and the one room of popcorn that was going to be opened up, I did the research, put on the moon suit and went to town. My contractor was not legally allowed to help, but was willing to observe and advise, so I felt good about the process.
Anyway, some years later, we decided to sell the house knowing that we would have to finish the abatement job. Given that I only knocked out the easy stuff, I expected a horrific bill. Instead, it was something like $3,000. Our architect explained that the difference was that there used to only be a tiny handful of licenced contractors and now the market is very competitive.
So that’s a long winded way of saying that maybe the situation is not that bad, Cicero.
I don’t know about the others but I inferred from the OP that upgrading the AC is going to directly require interacting with the asbestos. The statement “Problem is no one will touch or cut through asbestos” doesn’t, to me, sound like ‘hey hey hey, there’s asbestos in this house, I’m not coming in’, it sounds like there’s asbestos insulation on the furnace plenum or duct work (or even the lineset) and they don’t want to touch it.
Yes, but having to interact with some asbestos is not the same as removing all of the offending material, which will release more asbestos fibers. If asbestos must be cut, the cutter should wear a full-face respirator, gloves, etc. and do everything possible to minimize and contain the release of dust into the air/surrounding area and the area should be thoroughly cleaned afterwards.
So, you go into a house and see something along the lines of this wrapped around the ducts near the furnace and around the furnace plenum. You’re going to have to cut/remove some of the asbestos insulation, you’re going to kick up some dust, it’s inevitable. How do you, ‘an individual’, plan to do that? When you kick up dust, how do you assure the home owner they won’t breathe any of it in? How long do you tell them to wait before they go back down there? How do you make sure there’s no more remaining in the area when you’re done? Settled on the floor or walls, on top of the washing machine etc?
How do you make sure nothing like this stays behind where it will get knocked loose at some point in the future the next time a large appliance causes some vibration or there’s a draft in the basement? I wouldn’t have even thought about that, I just saw the picture when I was looking for my first link?
I don’t know, it’s just not something I’m willing to mess with, I’ll leave it to the trained pros.
Why am I doing it? I’m the homeowner, not the hiree.
I would ask the prospective individual installer – and I’m talking about an experienced, skilled installer, not some random guy you pick up hanging around the labor hall at 9 am – whether they thought the substance in question was asbestos and what effect they thought that would have on the installation.
Based on their answer, I would proceed with further questions on what safety measures they planned to take. If their plan sounded reasonable, involving use of proper safety gear, etc. and I felt they had the appropriate levels of confidence, experience, and caution, we could proceed.
During the work, I would vacate the premises of all humans and pets. I would stop by periodically to keep tabs on the work and confirm the presence and use of respirators, plastic sheeting, etc. If I wanted to supervise more thoroughly, I’d hang out nearby, approaching the physical space only with proper safety gear. After it was cleaned up to my satisfaction and the work people were paid and gone, I would wear a full-face respirator, doubled gloves taped at the cuffs, and a hooded disposable suit and reclean the entire area. I would wrap the contaminated materials appropriately and dispose of them according to my areas legal requirements.
If I felt extra-cautious, I would then have the air checked. Only then would I return humans and pets to the house.
How is any of that better than hiring a certified asbestos abatement company, let them remove the asbestos and then hiring the A/C guy to install the system?
It is very hard to control a fiber release. You would need to contain the area in plastic sheeting and run big air fans to keep the enclosure under negative pressure. The key is to keep the material wet as to prevent it from going airborne.
Assuming it’s friable you would then need to use and actual HEPA vacuum (not the kind you buy at Wal-Mart) from top to bottom, spray an encapsulating glue and finally clean the area from top to bottom multiple times using water.
If you remove non-friable asbestos, you run the risk of releasing asbestos particles into the air. Why pay someone tons of money to potentially worsen the situation?
A “professional” in this case just means they have undergone some minimal training, which nearly any marginally competent human could complete. This isn’t space shuttle design.
Covering an area in plastic sheeting and running fans is actually not hard. Sure, it’s a hassle, but it’s the kind of job the newest and dumbest guy on the crew gets assigned, due to requiring no major expertise. Even a layperson should have no trouble observing whether the job has been done well enough to proceed.
Gee, vacuuming, that’s practically impossible!
No, you don’t spray encapsulating glue to clean up. That’s for when you opt to leave friable asbestos in place to keep it from shedding. Spraying glue is also quite easy. It’s just like spray painting.
And then there’s the washing of things, a job so easy it is open to anyone willing to pick up a sponge.
Personally I’d rather ensure that the correct steps were taken, as I don’t believe any professional cares about the state of my family’s lungs in twenty years quite as much as I do.
Never said it was hard. The job is most often done by union laborers and not brain surgeons.
I don’t understand why you’re replying with some weird defensiveness, my post was directed to the OP and not to you. Obviously if you are comfortable in doing the work then feel free, but don’t give some fucking stupid advise to someone who doesn’t know.
It depends on your location, but here you are required to encapsulate the area and the containment structure after any gross removal of asbestos. And don’t trust the abatement company, trust the air monitoring professional (which would be required by OSHA and the EPA if this wasn’t a private residence) you hire as over-site and to make sure its safe to enter you home.
I got through school working at a facility where asbestos was everywhere and everyone was trained in asbestos handling & abatement (for liability reasons). You are making light of something that shouldn’t be brushed off as a weekend-warrior project.
The ductwork should have plaster over the asbestos - as long as the plaster is intact, there is no need to disturb the asbestos.
If the ducts are good, your only exposure is the plenum - the box from which the ducts conduct air (on an updraft furnace, it sits on top of the stack).
If the new furnace has the same opening dimensions, even the plenum can be used.
My 1918 house had whole bunches of asbestos - which the seller had wrapped in fiberglass duct insulation. This also works.
You said “It’s very hard to control a fiber release,” so yes, you did.
I never suggested the OP perform any work. I merely suggested that they consider hiring an individual instead of a large corporation, since the individual does not worry about suing himself for spurious reasons.
