Hello Everyone,
Yesterday I asked a question about a home we are looking to purchase. I will have several questions about the home and think that a new thread about each question would be the way to go in order to keep the discussions centered on one thing at a time. So quesion number two is:
We like the home and are probably going to make an offer on it tomorrow. It is a ranch home built in 1974, about 2000sq.ft. on 3 acres with a pool and comes with an apparently ugly an useless (to us) short wave radio antenna attached to the side of the house (yesterdays question). As we were going through the house, discussing what we are going to change, one of my wife’s first comments was that she would like to remove the popcorn from the ceiling and repaint it with a more updated texture. Sounds easy enough, so we get home and Google how toremove the popcorn texture. It appears to be realatively simple, wetting the popcorn and then scrapping it off. Easy, but from the looks of it very messy. As we continue to read we see several warnings that some popcorn textures that were applied up until 1977 contained asbestos. I do realize that living with asbestos shouldn’t be much of aproblem unless it is disturbed, and srapping it off the ceiling would certainly qualify as disturbing it. A further Google search reveals,that having this stuff removed if it does in fact contain asbestos is very very expensive and is something that should not be attempted by a homeowner.
So, the question is, how do we determine if the popcorn ceiling in this house contains asbestos? Would it be reasonable to assume that if the living room test negative, that the rest of the ceiling in the house would be negative as well? If it is positive, what kind of cost can be expected to remove it? If it test positive should we walk from the house or is it safe to live there as long as the ceiling is left alone?
I do realize that asbestos is dangerous and that is why I am asking these questions. But, I also understand that just because something can be dangerous doesn’t necceassarly mean it is a danger if left as is. So,what is the Straight Dope? Thanks… additional threads to follow.
You send a sample of the popcorn off to a lab somewhere or find a local testing lab. If it contains asbestos and you want to remove it safely, it’s a massive undertaking which I wouldn’t recommend, involving respirators and other equipment. It’s a big job even if it’s not asbestos-containing because it’s so difficult to work overhead, but it’s certainly do-able.
Here’s a thought: how high is the ceiling? If it’s like mine and over eight feet, you could have a carpenter put up a nailing grid of 1x4s and put a new false sheetrock ceiling over the popcorn. Then paint it however you like. You can do it with an eight-foot ceiling, but it may make the room look a bit smaller. The only problem with this idea is that if you also have can lights in your ceiling, the project becomes a bit more complicated, but still doable.
I think the post above effectively summarizes the asbestos issue.
If it does not contain asbestos it really is not a big deal, if unpainted it scrapes off easily - we never wet it down as far as I am aware. If previously painted it is much more laborious but still doable. I would hire a laborer to do this - unless you are unemployed, your time is almost certainly better spent doing something else. The dust is harmful asbestos or not so a respirator (not a paper mask) is recommended. After scraping is completed you will probably want to get a taper in to patch up any issues if you are going to texture it again or to mud it if you plan to paint.
It is a messy process, we usually mask off all openings and cover everything. The texture guys will do their own masking when they come. They are pretty fast - usually about an hour to mask, texture, knockdown and clean up a big room.
Good idea, but keep in mind that when you go to sell the home, you probably will have to disclose that there is asbestos in it. In fact, I’m surprised the current homeowner didn’t have to do that. And even if there is no real danger once its covered up, many people will not want their precious darlings exposed to this non-danger, and it may be difficult to sell your home.
You do not want to determine whether or not there is asbestos in your ceiling. If you know it’s there you have to disclose that information when you sell. Although it’s an annoying task, it’s not that difficult to remove it or cover it up. Same issue comes up with lead paint. If you have it tested, and you know it’s there, you have disclose it.
I recently bought a home and the sellers disclosure said “Don’t know” for the asbestos question. I guess they never checked it. Since I decided to leave it in place (painted over several times), I declined to have it tested.
Yes. You will have to sign forms that specifically ask if you’ve had testing done for lead and asbestos. You’re not required to state any assumptions you have. There may be state regulations that vary.
Thanks for the answers. I think our best course at this stage is to take a small sampling fro a closet or some other hidden place and have it tested.If it’s positive I guess we live with popcorn ceilings. I mean, what’s a little asbestos to worry about when you have three acres to spend your time on?
Get a respirator and a hose and go at it. The dangers of asbestos from a limited exposure are very low. Very few people without occupational exposure ever develop that kind of cancer.
Not necessarily. That sort of encapsulation would effectively render the existing ceiling inaccessible, much like the mastic for older floor tiles that are covered over. I’m relatively certain you don’t have to reveal it, if you don’t know it exists. If it’s covered without testing, there’s no attempt to deceive a future buyer. All you’ve done is perform minor renovation, which doesn’t even require a permit, AFAIK.
Wetting it makes it *much *easier to remove - it turns to kind of a mush, which comes off easily without raising much dust, although there will still be a considerable amount no matter how well you wet it. Not spraying it causes massive amounts of dust all over the place.
Aren’t you the guy with the bad back, obbn? It really is a physically difficult job to be working overhead like that for long periods - after scraping, you have to wipe away all residue left behind.
I like the idea of taking a small closet sample to be tested.
The difference is that floor tile & mastic are non-friable, and are non-regulated in many states. Acoustic spray-on is very friable and most likely contains one of the more dangerous fibers.
The fibers don’t magically disappear once removal is complete. They will stay in the air for days to weeks. If removal is the course of action you want to take, have a professional operation complete the work.
Like I said in the other thread, working in a lab located within a facility with good amounts of the material, I’m required to be trained in its management. If you PM the specifics of the house, I can ask the people who deal directly with it to give an estimate on work costs.
Realtor here. You absolutely need to include in your offer an inspection by a state registered home inspector contingency, with the language that additional inspections or tests as suggested by the home inspector be required. Should these turn up anything that you do not find acceptable, given expert advice, the seller must fix (“cure”) at his expense or you can walk (and language to that effect must also be included).
This is much too risky for you, as a non-expert, to make the determination.
Non-friable until you disturb it, you mean. Floor mastic (and the accompanying tile) is most certainly actionable if you peel up the tile, just as popcorn ceiling is actionable when you disturb it.
